Dear Aimoo User:

We will stop Aimoo to transfer some forums at 5:00:00 2019-01-22 UTC. It will take about 30 minutes, Thanks for your support : )
Free Speech
FSA Ticket | Today | Join | Member | Search | Who's On | Help | Sign In | |
FSA > General > Political Discussion Go to subcategory:
Author Content
docjim
  • From:USA

Date Posted:10-01-2019 04:11:35Copy HTML

Behind the Wall

The nation is presently having a superficial argument about a metaphysical wall, never meant to be a physical creation. The Wall was never more than its rallying cry, never more than the impossibility that Mexico would pay for the Wall. And Trump supporters, Limbaugh and Coulter aside, never cared if the wall got built. The issue behind the Wall was what motivated Trump supporters...the Browning of America.


Trump supporters, almost exclusively white, fear Spanish speaking neighborhoods and retail stores and restaurants (maybe restaurants not so much) will change “their” country. Some fear their jobs will be taken by the new brown people, those willing to work for lower wages, paid by employers long tolerated for breaking employment laws.


These same faithful Trump followers use the Wall to deny the perception that they harbor bigotry or racial bias. But the Wall does not serve them well in that regard because there never was a rational basis for believing a thirty foot high wall across our southern border would be constructed, much less paid for by Mexico. The Wall was never more than cover for fear of the “Other.”


As for that fear, would facts really matter if you just do not feel comfortable around brown people who are poor? Probably not. So when Trump falsely claims these brown people are rapists and murderers, it is easier to be bigoted, because your bigotry is just common sense...brown people are dangerous. That the claim is false is not something you care to research when its conclusion fits your belief.


And if that fear seeks actual action, then absurd Wall aside, Trump really is your guy, and you should be pleased. Since Trump became president the US has fallen to 50th in acceptance of Asylees and Refugees as a share of population. If that is great news to you, then consider that, under President Trump, we now accept 0.2% of our population versus an average internationally of 1.2%, six times higher than the US.


If that makes you happy, you may be thrilled that the 2019 refugee limit is 30,000, the lowest refugee acceptance level in three decades.


And if joy still abounds in your heart, the US currently has 12,800 minor children refugees in custody, a six-fold increase in 16 months, and that number grows daily. Currently the Trump administration seeks over $4 billion in additional funding for more beds for the coming kids.


If all of the above gives you comfort that the president is managing the “crisis” superbly, consider the actual facts; there are fewer illegals in the US than any time since 2004; 2/3rds of them have lived here a decade or longer; the crime rates of the illegals are lower than naturalized Americans. All of these pesky facts suggest there is no present “Crisis” of course.


Finally, consider that, since 1975 the United States has accepted over 3 million refugees and asylum seekers. Virtually all poor and coming in fear from a violent past. And yet, with so many Others here, some of our best years of prosperity and lowest years of crime have followed.


Our nation had, for many years, led the world in humanitarian acceptance of the poor, the displaced, the frightened, those seeking a better life, just as our forefathers sought better lives. And just as Germans and Poles and Italians were the Others, they too contributed to the nation.


We have a better history than this President, who sings the siren song of fear and bigotry with every chant of “build the wall.” Let us not dignify a single ounce of steel or concrete to disparage our courageous past.


Op Ed

drjim893@msn.com

1/11/19


DRJim
skrumpie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
  • From:Argentina

Re:Behind the Wall

Date Posted:10-01-2019 05:05:42Copy HTML

Behind the Wall

The nation is presently having a superficial argument about a metaphysical wall, never meant to be a physical creation.


Really?   Then why were there sections of wall when Trump got to the White House?


The Wall was never more than its rallying cry, never more than the impossibility that Mexico would pay for the Wall. And Trump supporters, Limbaugh and Coulter aside, never cared if the wall got built. The issue behind the Wall was what motivated Trump supporters...the Browning of America.


Mexico would indirectly pay for the wall by keeping its citizens on their side of the border.  As would Honduras, Guatemala, and any other country from whence illegals eminate. They would pay for the wall by not taking jobs from Americans and sending most of their money home to the place they fled from, to people whom they, oddly since they were in fear for their very lives, didn't bother to bring with them.  They would pay for the wall by not driving down American wages through accepting lower than normal pay in exchange for non-detection, and/or not working under the table.


The rest of that paragraph is nothing but unoriginal talking points.


Trump supporters, almost exclusively white, fear Spanish speaking neighborhoods and retail stores and restaurants (maybe restaurants not so much) will change “their” country. Some fear their jobs will be taken by the new brown people, those willing to work for lower wages, paid by employers long tolerated for breaking employment laws.


Yawning talking points in your first sentence.  Your second sentence is exactly why 'brown people' WILL pay for the wall as outlined in my first paragraph response.


These same faithful Trump followers use the Wall to deny the perception that they harbor bigotry or racial bias. But the Wall does not serve them well in that regard because there never was a rational basis for believing a thirty foot high wall across our southern border would be constructed, much less paid for by Mexico. The Wall was never more than cover for fear of the “Other.”


Yawning talking point in your first sentence.  Make note, Jim, talking points like this are exactly why Clinton lost in 2016, and why you socialists will continue to lose.  The rest?  Yawning talking points.  Surely as an award winner, you can come up with something more origina.


As for that fear, would facts really matter if you just do not feel comfortable around brown people who are poor? Probably not. So when Trump falsely claims these brown people are rapists and murderers, it is easier to be bigoted, because your bigotry is just common sense...brown people are dangerous. That the claim is false is not something you care to research when its conclusion fits your belief.


Most people would not have the opportunity, if you wish to look at it that way, to feel uncomfortable or comfortable around 'poor brown people', because they WON'T BE around them, Jim.  The rest of your piece is yawning, unoriginal talking points.


And if that fear seeks actual action, then absurd Wall aside, Trump really is your guy, and you should be pleased. Since Trump became president the US has fallen to 50th in acceptance of Asylees and Refugees as a share of population. If that is great news to you, then consider that, under President Trump, we now accept 0.2% of our population versus an average internationally of 1.2%, six times higher than the US.


Care to show us where it is written that we have to have a certain percentage of asylees and refugees as a share of our population?  How are those countries with those higher percentages doing, Jim?  I think Great Britain has seen a surge in terrorist acts, as has France.  Wasn't it Merkel, in Germany, who said cultural diversity really is not working?  You do know that Italy has stopped or deeply curtailed immigration, right?  and Sweden, well Sweden has become the rape capital of the world.


If that makes you happy, you may be thrilled that the 2019 refugee limit is 30,000, the lowest refugee acceptance level in three decades.


The wall really isn't about legal refugee application and acceptance though, isn't it, Jim?  Why are you throwing in a red herring?


And if joy still abounds in your heart, the US currently has 12,800 minor children refugees in custody, a six-fold increase in 16 months, and that number grows daily. Currently the Trump administration seeks over $4 billion in additional funding for more beds for the coming kids.


Talk to their parents and their cuyotes, Jim.  These children just don't wake up one morning and say 'bye mom, I'm walking to America'.  So why not appropriate one extra billion, maybe two, for the wall and send these children back to their parents?


If all of the above gives you comfort that the president is managing the “crisis” superbly, consider the actual facts; there are fewer illegals in the US than any time since 2004; 2/3rds of them have lived here a decade or longer; the crime rates of the illegals are lower than naturalized Americans. All of these pesky facts suggest there is no present “Crisis” of course.


Talking point.  Tell us, Jim, how does anyone know if someone is here illegally if they are here illegally?  How do we know, if someone doesn't come in through a checkpoint, that they are even here?  The rest of your paragraph, especially about crime rates, is a yawning talking point.  Ask yourself, Jim, if illegal crime rates are so low, why are our jails and prisons filled with illegals?


Finally, consider that, since 1975 the United States has accepted over 3 million refugees and asylum seekers. Virtually all poor and coming in fear from a violent past. And yet, with so many Others here, some of our best years of prosperity and lowest years of crime have followed.


Why are you conflating accepted refugees and asylum seekers with invaders?  What does OUR prosperity have to do with them?  Again, look the sheer volume of illegals currently residing in jails and prisons, Jim?


Our nation had, for many years, led the world in humanitarian acceptance of the poor, the displaced, the frightened, those seeking a better life, just as our forefathers sought better lives. And just as Germans and Poles and Italians were the Others, they too contributed to the nation.


Dear Lawd, the virtue signaling.  Looking for a better life is not a legally accepted reason to apply for asylum.  Neither is being frightened.  Blah, talking point blah.


We have a better history than this President, who sings the siren song of fear and bigotry with every chant of “build the wall.” Let us not dignify a single ounce of steel or concrete to disparage our courageous past.


Who is 'us', Jim?



Try to remember the kind of September when men weren't girls and girls weren't fellas..................
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
  • From:USA

Re:Behind the Wall

Date Posted:12-01-2019 08:35:35Copy HTML

I think the central point--that were these people equally illegal, equally seeking refuge, but white, that most of the current hysteria would be non-existent--is spot on. This is all about race, and that's all it's ever been about. That is not to say that skrumpie's objections to illegal immigration and the consequences it has on the nation don't have some validity. It is to say that if these were skrumpie's European cousins doing this, she wouldn't give a peep about those objections. The proof is that skrumpie never objects to the European illegals. Has ANYONE ever heard her say a word about them, about the European students who stay after their I-20s have expired, about the European au pairs who stay after their work permits have expired, about the European vacationers whose vacations go on and on...somehow, skrumpie never brings up her objections to those. No, that it is the color of the skin that is the real issue, and not the valid objections to illegal immigration, has been borne out time and again on these forums. Skrumpie speaks for a legion of cowering white folk.
skrumpie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
  • From:Argentina

Re:Behind the Wall

Date Posted:12-01-2019 09:17:39Copy HTML

Nowthen, you are doing what is called empathy patrolling, Mickey.


And hello, by the way.


Empathy patrolling is when you tell someone else what they should have said.  But the subject was not au pairs, so why should I bother with it.


If white Europeans with a real nasty strain of criminality built into them were literally breaking into our country and committing violence, which we know those from south of the border are wont to do since our jails and prisons are filled with them, Skrumpie would feel exactly the same way.


They'd still be illegal, they'd still be criminal, and I would still want to stop any further numbers from coming to duplicate the behaviors of those who came before them, and I would want those here, to the extent we are able to do so, returned from whence they came and reapply to come here legally if they wish.

Try to remember the kind of September when men weren't girls and girls weren't fellas..................
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
  • From:USA

Re:Behind the Wall

Date Posted:12-01-2019 11:05:04Copy HTML

 

But the subject was not au pairs, so why should I bother with it.

no, indeed, the subject was illegal immigration. But you don't worry about folks being illegal if they're white au pairs, only if they're brown border crossers.

If white Europeans with a real nasty strain of criminality built into them were literally breaking into our country and committing violence, which we know those from south of the border are wont to do since our jails and prisons are filled with them, Skrumpie would feel exactly the same way.

ah. I see. So the Russian mob, presents no problem, hmmm?

Russian Mafia's Worldwide Grip - CBS News


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-mafias-worldwide-grip

Oct 06, 2000 · Russian Mafia's Worldwide Grip. But law enforcement officials say the Russians are particularly good at money laundering, the lifeblood of organized crime. In fact, other crime groups use the Russians to clean their dirty money. From the Valentine's Day Massacre to Murder, Inc., organized crime in America already has a bloody history.

The Italian mafia, no problem there, eh skrumpie. Wouldn't hurt a flea. It's only the brown immigrants who have a "nasty strain of criminality", eh?

I would still want to stop any further numbers from coming to duplicate the behaviors of those who came before them, and I would want those here, to the extent we are able to do so, returned from whence they came and reapply to come here legally if they wish.


and yet, and yet, despite the nasty strain of criminality amongst those white groups noted above, only now, when prompted, are you moved to denounce them?

I think your umbrage, in this case, rings VERY hollow.

And hello back atcha! :-)

~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
skrumpie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
  • From:Argentina

Re:Behind the Wall

Date Posted:12-01-2019 11:19:35Copy HTML

 

But the subject was not au pairs, so why should I bother with it.

no, indeed, the subject was illegal immigration. But you don't worry about folks being illegal if they're white au pairs, only if they're brown border crossers.


I'll make you a deal.  We'll compare the violent crime rates of white au pairs to brown illegal immigrants.  Which group would you like to take?


If white Europeans with a real nasty strain of criminality built into them were literally breaking into our country and committing violence, which we know those from south of the border are wont to do since our jails and prisons are filled with them, Skrumpie would feel exactly the same way.


ah. I see. So the Russian mob, presents no problem, hmmm?


More empathy patrolling?  I had such high hopes for you as you aged.

Russian Mafia's Worldwide Grip - CBS News


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-mafias-worldwide-grip

Oct 06, 2000 · Russian Mafia's Worldwide Grip. But law enforcement officials say the Russians are particularly good at money laundering, the lifeblood of organized crime. In fact, other crime groups use the Russians to clean their dirty money. From the Valentine's Day Massacre to Murder, Inc., organized crime in America already has a bloody history.

The Italian mafia, no problem there, eh skrumpie. Wouldn't hurt a flea. It's only the brown immigrants who have a "nasty strain of criminality", eh?

I would still want to stop any further numbers from coming to duplicate the behaviors of those who came before them, and I would want those here, to the extent we are able to do so, returned from whence they came and reapply to come here legally if they wish.


and yet, and yet, despite the nasty strain of criminality amongst those white groups noted above, only now, when prompted, are you moved to denounce them?

I think your umbrage, in this case, rings VERY hollow.

And hello back atcha! :-)



mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
  • From:USA

Re:Behind the Wall

Date Posted:13-01-2019 06:16:55Copy HTML


I'll make you a deal.  We'll compare the violent crime rates of white au pairs to brown illegal immigrants.  Which group would you like to take?


So basically you're saying you want to compare one select group of white illegals with the ENTIRETY of brown illegals, hmmmm? How about this, a far more accurate comparison. Let's compare the violent crime rates of white au pairs to brown au pairs, hmmm? 


Moreover, do you understand that you just gave the game away. If it were truly a case of being against illegal immigration, you wouldn't be asking "what group would you like to take" because neither group would be acceptable to you. But what you just said is that you're okay with accepting white au pair illegals, but not brown au pair illegals. Proving in your own words that it is not the illegal immigrant portion that bothers you, but rather the race of that illegal.


~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
oldarmybear Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
  • From:USA

Re:Behind the Wall

Date Posted:14-01-2019 10:45:51Copy HTML

What Jim fails to acknowledge is that those refugees/immigrants were all seriously vetted on Ellis Island before being admitted to the USA. I have no problem with legal immigration but those seeking to come here must be vetted in their country of residence and must be able to support themselves. CI do not support any refugee/immigrant receiving welfare payments. At least not until every American citizen has a roof over their head and food in their belly. also no refugees or immigrants get a penny as long as we have one veteran needing help/healthcare.
Nickel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
  • From:USA

Re:Behind the Wall

Date Posted:17-01-2019 04:20:02Copy HTML

http://thefederalist.com/2019/01/14/americans-used-support-border-wall-changed-minds/ Sometimes persuasion requires more than simply facts and reason. But persuasion needs the flavor of righteousness for people to care enough to change their minds and for it to stick. ..................... It’s pretty cool that once the wall became racialized, Americans stopped supporting it and even a fence is less likely to retain support. When has a wall ever worked? has been my position from the beginning, but this works even better.....actually so long as we don’t invest time, effort and argument here when we could repair and improve our Interstate system which the states can’t afford to maintain and have let the federal investment decline. There’s always a way to spend the unallocated funds. I could have gone with paying back the borrowed money from social security, ending the contracts with the private military industrial complex, but raising taxes for any of the options is anathema. What best serves the country?
Copyright © 2000-2019 Aimoo Free Forum All rights reserved.