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Yobbo
  • From:New_zealand

Date Posted:02-09-2017 12:00:30Copy HTML

'Don't take the Bible literally' says scholar who brought to light earliest Latin analysis of the Gospels

Daily Telegraph UK

[T]he earliest Latin interpretation of the Gospels has been brought to light by a British academic – and it suggests that readers should not take the Bible literally.

Lost for 1,500 years, the fourth-century commentary by African-born Italian bishop Fortunatianus of Aquileia interprets the Gospels as a series of allegories instead of a literal history.

Dr Hugh Houghton, of the University of Birmingham, who translated the work, said it was an approach which modern Christians could learn from.

The find adds weight to the idea that many early biblical scholars did not see the Bible as a history, but instead a series of coded messages which represented key elements of Christianity, he said.

"There's been an assumption that it's a literal record of truth - a lot of the early scholars got very worried about inconsistencies between Matthew and Luke, for example.

"But for people teaching the Bible in the fourth century, it's not the literal meaning which is important, it's how it's read allegorically.


Another subject for Tomás to ignore.

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #31
  • From:USA

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:22-09-2017 03:56:12Copy HTML

Good grief, what did I just say in my last post???


Ok, then you tell me, simple yes or no - have you stopped beating your wife?.   If not, quit complaining.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #32
  • From:Unknown

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:22-09-2017 05:22:31Copy HTML

Your irrelevant question makes no sense. 

 Imagine my shock Tomas is unable answer a simple question and deflects with nonsense. 

You have not answered the question other than in unintelligible vagaries.  "Poetic" can also be literal Tomas.... and tells us nothing. "Differing historical accounts" also does not imply that you believe one or both to be wrong or inaccurate, just "differing accounts".  Now put on your honesty cap for the first time in your life, read the question slowly, and answer.

Do you, TOMAS,  take all of the bible literally, some of it literally, some written by man, none of it literally, or some other combination?


Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #33
  • From:USA

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:26-09-2017 06:01:07Copy HTML

Your irrelevant question makes no sense. 

 Imagine my shock Skw is unable answer a simple question and deflects with nonsense. 

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #34
  • From:Unknown

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:26-09-2017 06:20:16Copy HTML

 I didn't stop beating my wife because I never started.  There, I answered your irrelevant question.

Imagine my shock Tomas cannot answer a simple relevant question.

Do you, TOMAS,  take all of the bible literally, some of it literally, some written by man, none of it literally, or some other combination?

This is your thread about taking the bible literally.  Give us your answer.  It is quite simple even for a delusional simpleton like you.  You must know how you feel about it. Here it is again.

Do you, TOMAS,  take all of the bible literally, some of it literally, some written by man, none of it literally, or some other combination?

If you cannot answer, you can at least tell us why you refuse?


Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #35
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:27-09-2017 11:18:26Copy HTML

No automatic alt text available.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #36
  • From:USA

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:28-09-2017 07:20:53Copy HTML

I didn't stop beating my wife because I never started.  There, I answered your irrelevant question.

Ah, in other words, as you were wrong to simply expect an answer in the format you wanted, I was 'wrong' to expect an answer in the format I wanted (simply yes or no).

Imagine my shock.


This is your thread

Uh, no, its Yobbo's.     I guess if you misread something that simple...........

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #37
  • From:Unknown

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:28-09-2017 09:20:46Copy HTML

 Ah, in other words, as you were wrong to simply expect an answer in the format you wanted, I was 'wrong' to expect an answer in the format I wanted (simply yes or no).

____  I never asked simply yes or no.  Read the question you have noit answered slowly as if you actually knew you were as stupid as you are.

Here it is.

Do you, TOMAS,  take all of the bible literally, some of it literally, some written by man, none of it literally, or some other combination?

If you cannot answer, you can at least tell us why you refuse?


Not yes or no, requires just a tad of honesty on your part.  I know, that is highly unlikely but I am hopeful.


Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #38
  • From:USA

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:10-10-2017 07:57:18Copy HTML

Ah, in other words, as you were wrong to simply expect an answer in the format you wanted, I was 'wrong' to expect an answer in the format I wanted (in my case, a simply yes or no).

Imagine my shock.  And imagine my shock at having to repost something, amplified, in the hope it is read correctly the 2nd time.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #39
  • From:Unknown

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:10-10-2017 06:06:13Copy HTML

 Ah, in other words, as you were wrong to simply expect an answer in the format you wanted, I

___


NO.  I am expecting the answer in the format YOU want. Read the question again.

Do you, TOMAS,  take all of the bible literally, some of it literally, some written by man, none of it literally, or some other combination?

If you cannot answer, you can at least tell us why you refuse?

The question is wide open.  "some other combination"...describe it for YOU...not in a format I expect.

Tomas is his usual dodging and obfuscation mode because he cant answer a simple question. You are the most dishonest person I have ever met.


Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #40
  • From:USA

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:12-10-2017 06:14:22Copy HTML

The answer I gave was in the format I wanted - as that format was best suited for the answer (so far).


Posted again for reference:

Actually, I asked  you to give some specific passages - as you yourself note, they can vary in style.

And just like poetry can vary, so can an historical account like the gospels.   Since they include conversations of folk in there, the historical account could include any parables spoken by them, for example.


So, generally speaking, you have your history books (such as many books of the Old Testament, including Genesis, Samuel, Kings).   Job is poetic, yet it does record history.   And you have several prophetic books - but the non prophetic books can include prophecy, and the prophetic books can include history, etc. 

New Testament, same idea.  Gospels and Acts are historical books.  What follows are epistles to either churches or individuals, containing instructions, principles, etc. - but also including history.

The only real prophetic book is Revelation - but it also includes some history, and the other books of the New Testament include prophecy.


And as Paul notes - they are all God Breathed.    2 Timothy 3:16.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #41
  • From:Unknown

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:16-10-2017 06:44:37Copy HTML

 Job is poetic, yet it does record history.

__

Still not an answer.

LOL. So the bible can be poetic....which is also history.  So am I to conclude you take everything in the bible to be actual history that happened, even when written poetically?

Does "poetic" mean it is history or it is not necessarily history and sometimes fabricated events? 

Put on your big man clothes and answer Tomas.

Do you, TOMAS,  take all of the bible literally, some of it literally, some written by man, none of it literally, or some other combination?

Poetic is NOT an answer.  It can be poetic and be describing actual events or made up events.  Do you believe they are all actual events or some are made up?


Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #42
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:16-10-2017 07:36:29Copy HTML

Tomlapaz believes that his god created the world in a few days.

He believes that humans are derived from one man and a woman formed from one of the man's ribs.

So, a great deal of incest, at least at the beginning.


Biblical errors and lies

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #43
  • From:USA

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:16-10-2017 10:17:20Copy HTML

Poetic is NOT an answer.  It can be poetic and be describing actual events or made up events.

yes, and you can tell from the context, just as with any poetry.   I think this is so hard for the two of you because you find the message of the bible so hard.

That the three of us are sinners, unable to save ourselves.  Once a person admits the truth of that, the pieces start to fall into place.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #44
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:17-10-2017 01:20:13Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Poetic is NOT an answer.  It can be poetic and be describing actual events or made up events.

yes, and you can tell from the context, just as with any poetry.   I think this is so hard for the two of you because you find the message of the bible so hard.

That the three of us are sinners, unable to save ourselves.  Once a person admits the truth of that, the pieces start to fall into place.


You are fantasising again.  The bible is a record of some of the fantasies of primitive Levantine nomads.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #45
  • From:USA

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:17-10-2017 01:29:03Copy HTML

And I would say you two have not been honest with yourselves on these topics.  Which actually reminds me - there is a pic Easy posted, that would  make the substance of a good future thread.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #46
  • From:Unknown

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:17-10-2017 06:05:34Copy HTML

 Poetic is NOT an answer.  It can be poetic and be describing actual events or made up events.

yes, and you can tell from the context, just as with any poetry.   I think this is so hard for the two of you because you find the message of the bible so hard.

_________


I can tell what from the context?  When to be taken literally versus when not to be taken literally?

It is "literally" impossible for you to come out and say it isn't it? 

I, Tomas, understand that some of the bible is not always literal, and just a "poetic" story in many places. Try it in your head a few times.  It wont kill you.


Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #47
  • From:USA

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:17-10-2017 06:49:29Copy HTML

I gave you complete answers. Answers other folk easily understand.   Why is it so hard for you?


Now, you are the one that posted the below - so how do you yourself know?  By the context?

Poetic is NOT an answer.  It can be poetic and be describing actual events or made up events. 

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #48
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:17-10-2017 07:28:33Copy HTML


I gave you complete answers. Answers other folk easily understand.

So, how about repeating the whole answer.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #49
  • From:Unknown

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:17-10-2017 10:45:13Copy HTML

 I gave you complete answers. Answers other folk easily understand.   Why is it so hard for you?

________


No you did not.  You lie, you lie, you lie.

You said the bible is sometimes poetic, which is also historical.

What the fuck does that mean in terms of literal or figurative?  You are clearly trying to not be pinned down.

Try telling us again, but get rid of the word "poetic" that tells us nothing about whether it is figurative or literal.  Poetic words can describe literal historic events or figurative allegory and stories.

 Give us your whole answer again Tomas.  As concise as possible.  Use the words "literal" and "figurative".


1) You either think all of the bible is literal (historic), although some of it is expressed poetically (whatever relevance that has in terms of my question....hint: none).

2) You think the bible is both literal and figurative, and some of both are expressed poetically(again irrelevant), or

3) You think the bible is all figurative, poetic or not (still irrelevant to my question).

Those are the options.  Ill make it easy for you.  You only have to say 1, 2, or 3 in your next post.



codify Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #50
  • From:USA

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:18-10-2017 12:33:49Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 Skw, have you stopped beating your wife?


Simple Yes or No question.......................

____________________________________

Since I never beat my wife, then am I to assume you never took the bible literally?

It is actually a simple question Tomas. Yes or no.  Do you take the bible literally in every regard, or just some of it? That is a yes/no question.....as yes/no as they come.

Grow a spine and actually answer a question for the first time in your life Tomas. I promise it wont kill you.



That was not a "yes" or "no" response. Answer the question.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #51
  • From:Unknown

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:18-10-2017 05:22:02Copy HTML

 That was not a "yes" or "no" response. Answer the question.

___


Irrelevant. 

I am asking the following, which is not remotely related to the question about beating a wife that was never beaten. 

1) You either think all of the bible is literal (historic),

2) You think the bible is both literal and figurative,

3) You think the bible is all figurative,

Those are the options. 


Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #52
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:18-10-2017 07:22:08Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 That was not a "yes" or "no" response. Answer the question.

___


Irrelevant. 

I am asking the following, which is not remotely related to the question about beating a wife that was never beaten. 

1) You either think all of the bible is literal (historic),

2) You think the bible is both literal and figurative,

3) You think the bible is all figurative,

Those are the options. 



Now, for the love of your god, give us an answer.

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #53
  • From:Unknown

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:18-10-2017 08:16:26Copy HTML

 When did you stop beating your wife? in 3-2-1.....


For the life of me I see no relevance in that question whatsoever. 

The appropriate comparison is.

1) Do you beat your wife all the time,

2) Do you beat your wife sometimes and not others,

3) Do you never beat your wife?

That can be answered, just like the question we have been asking about the bible.

Tomas said he posted it for anyone to see. Sadly Bones removed my thread asking the other board members to come over and tell us how easy it is for anyone to see. We all know it is not easy for anyone to see because it is not here.

"The bible is sometimes poetic which can be historical" is about as meaningless a non-answer as can be given to the question.



Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #54
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:04-11-2017 12:17:09Copy HTML

Link

A Canadian Official Mocked Astrology and Creationism, Infuriating Some Critics

The position of Governor General in Canada is mostly ceremonial. It’s unelected and a way to link the nation with the Queen. It’s also, then, not very interesting as far as politics goes. But Julie Payette, who was appointed to the position last month, is raising some eyebrows after a speech she made at the Canadian Science Policy Convention in Ottawa on Wednesday night.

Realize that Payette isn’t some random person in her position. Her résumé includes stints as a businesswoman, computer engineer, pilot, and astronaut. She spent more than three weeks in space and became the first Canadian on the International Space Station. She takes science seriously, and she’s not afraid to advocate for it. She’s all kinds of badass.

Maybe that’s why her remarks caught a lot of people’s attention. Payette mocked astrology, joked about Creationists, and questioned climate change deniers.

Contains a good video
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #55
  • From:USA

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:04-11-2017 02:30:01Copy HTML

Reply to codify

Reply to skwanderer

 Skw, have you stopped beating your wife?


Simple Yes or No question.......................

____________________________________

Since I never beat my wife, then am I to assume you never took the bible literally?

It is actually a simple question Tomas. Yes or no.  Do you take the bible literally in every regard, or just some of it? That is a yes/no question.....as yes/no as they come.

Grow a spine and actually answer a question for the first time in your life Tomas. I promise it wont kill you.



That was not a "yes" or "no" response. Answer the question.


He never did connect the dots here.

Or perhaps - he does not want to.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #56
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:04-11-2017 06:37:01Copy HTML

My life you are full of shit, Tomás!

You clearly refuse to answer, why put up the obfuscation?
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #57
  • From:USA

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:04-11-2017 06:44:40Copy HTML

Perhaps you really believe that - but if so, you are a very confused man.
Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #58
  • From:USA

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:05-04-2018 08:19:13Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

'Don't take the Bible literally' says scholar who brought to light earliest Latin analysis of the Gospels

Daily Telegraph UK

[T]he earliest Latin interpretation of the Gospels has been brought to light by a British academic – and it suggests that readers should not take the Bible literally.

Lost for 1,500 years, the fourth-century commentary by African-born Italian bishop Fortunatianus of Aquileia interprets the Gospels as a series of allegories instead of a literal history.

Dr Hugh Houghton, of the University of Birmingham, who translated the work, said it was an approach which modern Christians could learn from.

The find adds weight to the idea that many early biblical scholars did not see the Bible as a history, but instead a series of coded messages which represented key elements of Christianity, he said.

"There's been an assumption that it's a literal record of truth - a lot of the early scholars got very worried about inconsistencies between Matthew and Luke, for example.

"But for people teaching the Bible in the fourth century, it's not the literal meaning which is important, it's how it's read allegorically.


Another subject for Tomás to ignore.

There were MANY heretical writings in the early church which had to be countered continuously and there is not a legitimization simply because something was written.

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #59
  • From:USA

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:06-04-2018 02:38:51Copy HTML

 2 Timothy 3:16 Revised Standard Version (RSV)

16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #60
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Early biblical scholars say the bible ought not be taken literally.

Date Posted:27-07-2018 08:24:09Copy HTML

Are the comments attributed to Bones actually posts made by people who later left the group?
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
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