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Nickel
  • From:USA

Date Posted:26-10-2018 02:13:00Copy HTML

Massachusetts senator (and 2020 Democratic presidential hopeful) Elizabeth Warren is not Native American.

Native American identity is about belonging to a community. It is a specific political, legal and social formation akin to a form of citizenship that is particular to each tribe, nation, confederacy or otherwise sovereign and self-determining Indigenous government—numbering 567 federally recognized tribes and hundreds of Alaska Native, Hawaiian and state-recognized entities across the country.

It is also racial. Not in the biological sense, but in a more ephemeral cultural and social understanding of that word—an identity lived by Native Americans across tribal affiliations and policed by the shifting structures of discrimination, opportunity and the many mundane and extraordinary life experiences in between.

Warren cannot, does not and should not claim Native American identity in its tribal or racial form. She, like many people on a continent taken from First Peoples, can claim Native American ancestry.

Ancestry only means that a long time ago (in Warren’s case, six to 10 generations, or likely well over 100 years) an ancestor in the nether reaches of the Warren family tree was Indigenous to North or South America.

 ............


I am Native American because I was born in Vermont.  Indigenous people before the Europeans, (misnamed Indian because Columbus was searching for a route to India) claiming to be here first, also came  from elsewhere, in Asia, so they are not really indigenous, either.  We have some strange archeological finds that suggest cultures we know nothing about existed before the arrival of others.  Four corners in Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona is still a mystery though Pueblo claim descendancy.  Teotihuacan in Mexico is a clearly, we don’t know who built those pyramids. They were here long before us. example..


It’s discouraging to think DNA evidence that unites us is being usurped by racists and tribalists.  


Warren has the marker in her DNA and the lineage in her tree.  She’s not Pocahontas, but she is Cherokee.  

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:26-10-2018 02:19:05Copy HTML

Massachusetts senator (and 2020 Democratic presidential hopeful) Elizabeth Warren is not Native American.

Native American identity is about belonging to a community. It is a specific political, legal and social formation akin to a form of citizenship that is particular to each tribe, nation, confederacy or otherwise sovereign and self-determining Indigenous government—numbering 567 federally recognized tribes and hundreds of Alaska Native, Hawaiian and state-recognized entities across the country.

It is also racial. Not in the biological sense, but in a more ephemeral cultural and social understanding of that word—an identity lived by Native Americans across tribal affiliations and policed by the shifting structures of discrimination, opportunity and the many mundane and extraordinary life experiences in between.

Warren cannot, does not and should not claim Native American identity in its tribal or racial form. She, like many people on a continent taken from First Peoples, can claim Native American ancestry.

Ancestry only means that a long time ago (in Warren’s case, six to 10 generations, or likely well over 100 years) an ancestor in the nether reaches of the Warren family tree was Indigenous to North or South America.

 ............


I am Native American because I was born in Vermont.  Indigenous people before the Europeans, (misnamed Indian because Columbus was searching for a route to India) claiming to be here first, also came  from elsewhere, in Asia, so they are not really indigenous, either.  We have some strange archeological finds that suggest cultures we know nothing about existed before the arrival of others.  Four corners in Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona is still a mystery though Pueblo claim descendancy.  Teotihuacan in Mexico is a clearly, we don’t know who built those pyramids. They were here long before us. example..


It’s discouraging to think DNA evidence that unites us is being usurped by racists and tribalists.  


Warren has the marker in her DNA and the lineage in her tree.  She’s not Pocahontas, but she is Cherokee.  


PLEASE......... 1/1024th.

Nickel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:26-10-2018 02:34:17Copy HTML

This is similar to Barack Obama not being Black because his father was African, and of course that’s not the Black American experience: slavery, separate but equal, Jim Crow, Newark riot, LA riot, Martin Luther King, content of your character, Black Power, fist raised, strange fruit, being a minority, fear and anger, supported by statistics. Obama grew up in Hawaii where whites are the minority locals abuse. So, of course he could be President someday.
Nickel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:26-10-2018 02:47:52Copy HTML

Massachusetts senator (and 2020 Democratic presidential hopeful) Elizabeth Warren is not Native American.

Native American identity is about belonging to a community. It is a specific political, legal and social formation akin to a form of citizenship that is particular to each tribe, nation, confederacy or otherwise sovereign and self-determining Indigenous government—numbering 567 federally recognized tribes and hundreds of Alaska Native, Hawaiian and state-recognized entities across the country.

It is also racial. Not in the biological sense, but in a more ephemeral cultural and social understanding of that word—an identity lived by Native Americans across tribal affiliations and policed by the shifting structures of discrimination, opportunity and the many mundane and extraordinary life experiences in between.

Warren cannot, does not and should not claim Native American identity in its tribal or racial form. She, like many people on a continent taken from First Peoples, can claim Native American ancestry.

Ancestry only means that a long time ago (in Warren’s case, six to 10 generations, or likely well over 100 years) an ancestor in the nether reaches of the Warren family tree was Indigenous to North or South America.

 ............


I am Native American because I was born in Vermont.  Indigenous people before the Europeans, (misnamed Indian because Columbus was searching for a route to India) claiming to be here first, also came  from elsewhere, in Asia, so they are not really indigenous, either.  We have some strange archeological finds that suggest cultures we know nothing about existed before the arrival of others.  Four corners in Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona is still a mystery though Pueblo claim descendancy.  Teotihuacan in Mexico is a clearly, we don’t know who built those pyramids. They were here long before us. example..


It’s discouraging to think DNA evidence that unites us is being usurped by racists and tribalists.  


Warren has the marker in her DNA and the lineage in her tree.  She’s not Pocahontas, but she is Cherokee.  


PLEASE......... 1/1024th.


PLEASE......... somewhere between 1/64th and 1/1,024th ― likely came from an ancestor Indigenous to North or South America.


She would not have happened without it......so many loves go into the making of each of us.....


However, she is part not whole Cherokee....who knows what traits surface with each generation.


I look exactly like my paternal great grandmother.  

Nickel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:26-10-2018 02:49:44Copy HTML

Royal Descents of famous people By Mark Humphrys. 1995 to date. All humanity is interrelated many times over (contrary to what an endless procession of racists and tribalists throughout history have claimed or implied). For any two humans in history or today, it is not a question of do they have a common ancestor, it is only a question of when was the most recent one. If we had full genealogical records for all of human history and pre-history, then any two living people on earth could identify their closest relationship to each other. Or indeed any two living organisms on earth, since DNA probably did not evolve twice. One could also pick any famous person, alive or dead, and show your closest relationship to them. For they are all related. See pre-historical estimates for Common ancestors of all humans. .... http://humphrysfamilytree.com/famous.descents.html
Nickel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:26-10-2018 06:13:27Copy HTML

Is it fair to criticize her for recognizing an ancestor? She might use that to win votes from a minority. Both Republicans and Democrats speak to minorities during campaigns because each has only 40% of the vote, so they have to get minority votes to win. A minority can control the outcome of an election, so hopefuls pander to them, try to identify with them. Campaigns claim candidates are from working class or Washington outsiders because that gets votes.....whatever works. They risk being discovered false because most voters won’t get that truth before the election even if it’s exposed beforehand...and it just doesn’t matter much afterwards. As in the other thread, the level of vitriol used against her suggests Republicans fear her. Casino Tribes may tend toward Republicans more than the traditional tendency to support Democrats. Just a thought...idk. They are all so different, some with hatred of each other only join hands because they hate the rest of us, more.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:26-10-2018 02:18:58Copy HTML

Massachusetts senator (and 2020 Democratic presidential hopeful) Elizabeth Warren is not Native American.

Native American identity is about belonging to a community. It is a specific political, legal and social formation akin to a form of citizenship that is particular to each tribe, nation, confederacy or otherwise sovereign and self-determining Indigenous government—numbering 567 federally recognized tribes and hundreds of Alaska Native, Hawaiian and state-recognized entities across the country.

It is also racial. Not in the biological sense, but in a more ephemeral cultural and social understanding of that word—an identity lived by Native Americans across tribal affiliations and policed by the shifting structures of discrimination, opportunity and the many mundane and extraordinary life experiences in between.

Warren cannot, does not and should not claim Native American identity in its tribal or racial form. She, like many people on a continent taken from First Peoples, can claim Native American ancestry.

Ancestry only means that a long time ago (in Warren’s case, six to 10 generations, or likely well over 100 years) an ancestor in the nether reaches of the Warren family tree was Indigenous to North or South America.

 ............


I am Native American because I was born in Vermont.  Indigenous people before the Europeans, (misnamed Indian because Columbus was searching for a route to India) claiming to be here first, also came  from elsewhere, in Asia, so they are not really indigenous, either.  We have some strange archeological finds that suggest cultures we know nothing about existed before the arrival of others.  Four corners in Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona is still a mystery though Pueblo claim descendancy.  Teotihuacan in Mexico is a clearly, we don’t know who built those pyramids. They were here long before us. example..


It’s discouraging to think DNA evidence that unites us is being usurped by racists and tribalists.  


Warren has the marker in her DNA and the lineage in her tree.  She’s not Pocahontas, but she is Cherokee.  


PLEASE......... 1/1024th.


PLEASE......... somewhere between 1/64th and 1/1,024th ― likely came from an ancestor Indigenous to North or South America.


She would not have happened without it......so many loves go into the making of each of us.....


However, she is part not whole Cherokee....who knows what traits surface with each generation.


I look exactly like my paternal great grandmother.  


YEAH BUT that reasoning is SO flimsy as she wouldn't be here without an ancestor from 1,000 or 10,000 years ago EITHER, but i don't think she is claiming NEANDERTHAL ancestry as well-LOL

Segovia_del_Prado Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:26-10-2018 09:13:44Copy HTML

OH, please! somewhere between 1/64th and 1/1024th likely predates her ancestors arrival on this continent, and involved some individual whose descendant walked across that land bridge to Alaska. I have excellent lineage records, and they don't go back further than ten generation, so you and I and everyone else with a firing synapse knows that she didn't get the notion she was Native American from some family lore. She's a liar who was looking for a way to improve her chances for success in life.
Nickel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:27-10-2018 05:54:00Copy HTML

My mother was ashamed that her father was Native American. Many hid that fact. On my father’s side, a Native American ancestor’s whole family changed their names to COVELL. That said, I don’t have a marker for Native American in tests for YDNA or mtDNA.. Anyway, it’s a chuckle to think someone would improve their chances for success by claiming Native American heritage. Have you seen the exploitation of casinos, the spending of compensation dollars. One Connecticut Tribe was awarded an astronomical sum of money and spent themselves back into poverty. Some Tribes have invested in the people, but per capita is what most members want and what depleted their funds was the pressure to increase it. Membership in Tribes became much more stringent because with every new member, the per capita for all the others is decreased. ....chances for success....lol
Segovia_del_Prado Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:27-10-2018 06:12:16Copy HTML

just look at Alaska-------- I'm not sure if other indigenous people carry the same gene; but the Inuit are lacking an enzyme that processes alcohol in the same manner as other races-------- and one drink of the stuff turns them into a roaring drunk and an alcoholic........ which explains why many Indians fail to prosper.
Segovia_del_Prado Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:27-10-2018 06:14:41Copy HTML

that said;-------we can be pretty sure that Liawatha doesn't have any long held admiration for Native Americans, but she IS smart enough to recognize that she needed a "hook" to help her along in the big mean New England academic climate.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:27-10-2018 11:42:20Copy HTML

Segovia still pedaling the proven falsehood. There is no debating with morons who see the facts, ignore the facts, and repeat the lies.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:27-10-2018 11:42:21Copy HTML

Segovia still pedaling the proven falsehood. There is no debating with morons who see the facts, ignore the facts, and repeat the lies.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:27-10-2018 01:20:37Copy HTML

Segovia still pedaling the proven falsehood.  There is no debating with morons who see the facts, ignore the facts, and repeat the lies.


"Fuck you, you are an imbecile because you don't accept what I, the GREAT and POWERFUL SKDUMMY, say, and with ALL the conditions I set......BUT let's now have a 'serious' and thought provoking debate......forget the stupid shit I said earlier"-SKDUMMY

skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #14
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:27-10-2018 01:38:47Copy HTML

Wale you must enjoy looking like an idiot. Elizabeth Warren did not use her native American ancestry to get ahead at Harvard. It is not MY pronouncement. It has NOTHING to do with me. You are sick. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elizabeth-warren-wealthy-native-american/ “It simply played no role in the appointments process. It was not mentioned and I didn’t mention it to the faculty,” he was quoted saying. In a 2012 statement released through Harvard, Fried added: “Elizabeth Warren was recruited (she did not apply — one does not apply for these positions) to be a tenured professor at Harvard because she was preeminent in the fields of bankruptcy and commercial law, two fields in which we had strong teaching needs.”
skrumpie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #15
  • From:Argentina

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:27-10-2018 01:53:22Copy HTML

This is a real simple question.


If she did not use her native american (bogus) identity, then WHY DOES HARVARD LIST IT?


Do you think they looked at her and said "oh, she has high cheekbones, she must be Cherokee, let's list her as our first female alumnus 'of color'".


Really?

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:27-10-2018 02:16:59Copy HTML

Wale you must enjoy looking like an idiot.   Elizabeth Warren did not use her native American ancestry to get ahead at Harvard.  It is not MY pronouncement. It has NOTHING to do with me. You are sick. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elizabeth-warren-wealthy-native-american/ “It simply played no role in the appointments process. It was not mentioned and I didn’t mention it to the faculty,” he was quoted saying. In a 2012 statement released through Harvard, Fried added: “Elizabeth Warren was recruited (she did not apply — one does not apply for these positions) to be a tenured professor at Harvard because she was preeminent in the fields of bankruptcy and commercial law, two fields in which we had strong teaching needs.”


SKRUMPIE responds PERFECTLY to your idiotic statement SKDUMMY

skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #17
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:27-10-2018 03:06:55Copy HTML

If she did not use her native american (bogus) identity, then WHY DOES HARVARD LIST IT? ----- Easy answer...they loved the idea of having someone native on their faculty. But this is of course unrelated to the issue. They have no record of her using the ancestry to get a job, and they had no knowledge of her ancestry when she was hired. Hence...the ancestry was never used to get a leg up at Harvard or at Penn. Had you read this first, your question would have been answered. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elizabeth-warren-wealthy-native-american/
Nickel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #18
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:30-10-2018 08:28:31Copy HTML

Okay, so here's the place where I explain why your Native American DNA does not show up on DNA tests.  First of all, I am going to introduce you to Mitochondrial Eve.  For some odd reason, when you take a DNA tests the only American Indian you see is from Mitochondrial Eve.  Mitochondrial Eve is passed down from the maternal line down.  So you got Mitochondrial Eve from your mother, she got it from her mother, who got it from her mother, who got it from her mother, so on and so forth.  So it's one line from all the ladies. Now boys, you got Mitochondrial Eve from your mothers but I'm sorry to say that Eve ends with you.  And your children will get Mitochondrial Eve from their mother.   So if your father was a full-blooded Cherokee Indian and he had documentation of that, it wouldn't show up on the test.  If your maternal grandfather was 100% American Indian it wouldn't show up on the test.   https://hiddennativeancestry.weebly.com/dna-testing.html
_QZ_ Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #19
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:30-10-2018 10:31:39Copy HTML

 https://hiddennativeancestry.weebly.com/dna-testing.html




Interesting link, Nickel.  I know who my "grands" are up to when each side came to America, two to three generations ago, and none married anyone with known NA ancestory.  I have taken one of these tests, and they have a category for Native American/Asian and I have more than Warren within fewer generations.  


I'm even a larger percentage "black", and I've recently learned that race is not grounded in genetics:


https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/race-genetics-science-africa/


And that we are all 99.9% the same:


http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/resources/whats_a_genome/Chp4_1.shtml


All in all, I've learned to not underestimate our ability as humans to prefer to see our differences as larger than our similarities, until we end up killing each other for no good reason. 


Nickel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #20
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:02-11-2018 09:13:15Copy HTML

At Family Tree DNA a black took their test and discovered NA with no black markers. Wonder how his world view shifted..... Watched a Stonehenge documentary that revealed the moon equated with women dated to male hunters and a happier society, but following the ice age inclination to stay in place, boredom, the sun needed to grow crops equated with men gained superior status as farmers, brought battles over land, leading to war. Through Stonehenge a priest shows the moon over the sun and that both are important, trying to bring back the moon, a happier society. Plains Tribes were similar to the moon worshippers. It was Europeans who brought women as property and land ownership to the Tribes. Tribes had challenged each other over hunting a moving target; their men and women negotiated skill levels to see who did what. Happier times for them than what Europeans had going..... When so many Europeans had it wrong, must have been very difficult to understand; many leaders ridiculed and puzzled over it while being overwhelmed by the numbers. Why do we see differences as more important than our similarities.... It may be like the news, if it bleeds it leads, until we think that’s all there is. We are good people. The evidence is only 10 to 15 % of us are in prison, most of them are recidivists, and some shouldn’t even be there. Innocent until proven guilty is not without its flaws. Europeans and Asians think the United States is mostly Black despite them being a minority of 18 percent, Mexicans being 25 percent. It’s likely media coverage that gives that impression. That we have so many recognized Tribes comes as a shock, since they were all slaughtered by us, long ago. I suppose we have similar faulty ideas about Europe and Asia. Two homegrown threats are Obama isn’t Black and Warren isn’t Cherokee. Defined and separated is a racist, not a multicultural approach to issues. Somehow, multicultural studies has divided us like Europe for no apparent good reason.
Segovia_del_Prado Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #21
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:04-11-2018 12:29:46Copy HTML

as I noted about Liawatha's indigenous ancestor having lived before the migration across the land bridge, how anyone can with any degree of certainty ascribe a tribe or a geographic region, or for that matter a race is a mystery to me------- aren't we all supposed to be descended from African progenitors, except for the occasional Neanderthal that survived to breed?
Nickel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #22
  • From:USA

Re:Elizabeth Warren is not Native American......really?

Date Posted:05-11-2018 12:20:28Copy HTML

Yes, the daughters of Eve all came out of Africa. However, the excavation of Three Gorges Dam in China has unearthed another source for our human ancestors older than Lucy. We’re more connected than we imagine, but it’s still a work in progress and people tend to cling to our differences rather than our shared genes. Look at the families fighting all over Europe forcing national boundaries to matter. The 20th century was a deadly food fight over the family supper table. The polarization of our country is not a good sign. I hate those documents, and they’re everywhere, that ask for ethnicity especially because they ask about many cultures and then two skin colors....should be all skin colors or all cultures. Who’s the idiot responsible for that?
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