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alaskaone
  • From:USA

Date Posted:15-03-2018 07:35:21Copy HTML

In his Breakthrough essay, Pinker spells out a key assumption of ecomodernism. Industrialization “has been good for humanity. It has fed billions, doubled lifespans, slashed extreme poverty, and, by replacing muscle with machinery, made it easier to end slavery, emancipate women, and educate children. It has allowed people to read at night, live where they want, stay warm in winter, see the world, and multiply human contact. Any costs in pollution and habitat loss have to be weighed against these gifts.”

Pinker contrasts the can-do ecomodernist spirit with “the lugubrious conventional wisdom offered by the mainstream environmental movement, and the radicalism and fatalism it encourages.” We can solve problems related to climate change, Pinker argues, “if we sustain the benevolent forces of modernity that have allowed us to solve problems so far, including societal prosperity, wisely regulated markets, international governance, and investments in science and technology.”

The bulk of Pinker’s essay consists of documentation of how we've handled environmental threats. We have reduced our rate of population growth; made agriculture, transportation and other key industries more energy-efficient; and increased the acreage of marine and terrestrial preserves. Here is a typical passage:

“Since 1970, when the Environmental Protection Agency was established, the United States has slashed its emissions of five air pollutants by almost two-thirds. Over the same period, the population grew by more than 40 percent, and those people drove twice as many miles and became two and a half times richer. Energy use has leveled off, and even carbon dioxide emissions have turned a corner. These diverging curves refute both the left-wing claim that only de-growth can curb pollution and the right-wing claim that environmental protection must sabotage economic growth and standard of living.”


Try as I might, that nuance was either incomprehensible to the opposition or perhaps ridicule and mockery are the only forms of humor they are capable of.  I don't know.

I don't actually believe it's possible for humanity to exert control over global climate.  Even the most optimistic projections of the effects of what controls the radical environmentalists proposed were of such minor consequence as to be difficult to actually measure.

But, I do think it might be a good idea to continue research in that direction.  Earth has suffered mass extinctions in the past due to meteor strikes, volcanoes, and interstellar dust clouds.  It might come in handy to be able to increase global temperatures should we pass through a dust cloud or one of our super-volcanoes pop off.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
easyrider123 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #31
  • From:Norway

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 03:51:46Copy HTML

It's hard to imagine that any of them even made it through high school, let alone any collegiate studies. 

There's almost no critical thinking evident, at all. 49cfr probably took 6 years to pass her G.E.D.  College? I think not, and if she did manage to get accepted anywhere, I'd love to know what school it was. College of fork lift driving perhaps?

beam me up scotty   ;-)
THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway.
katie5445 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #32
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 04:02:17Copy HTML

The idea of college is you experience all different types of flavors, that is what college is about. Some courses that might seem strange to all of us are different than the mainstream and more often than not, what most of us would not choose. Most students do not choose these types of classes it is to difficult to get through the requirements of what you need to graduate and what you need to graduate in your major and looking forward to a job and making $$$.College hasn't changed as much as people think, I have two late bloomers who graduated in the last few years and it hasn't changed as much as some try to pretend, although for me it is far harder but I find the same in education across the board.
katie5445 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #33
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 04:10:33Copy HTML

And the politics of these young people don't matter, they will find cures for diseases, explore space like never before, advance tech systems and build amazing infrastructure.
the49cfr Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #34
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 11:24:46Copy HTML

Go Google "speedometer" and get back to us. Dropping a brick on one doesn't affect the speed of a vehicle. 

You're an idiot and you prove it to us everyday. But what can we expect from a geriatric never been married, no offspring, can't drive a car, never owned a home, advocates murdering conservatives, SF metrosexual? I guess you're doing the best you can under your circumstances. 
The world is a magical place full of people waiting to be offended by something.
skrumpie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #35
  • From:Argentina

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 11:45:13Copy HTML

Reply to easyrider123

It's hard to imagine that any of them even made it through high school, let alone any collegiate studies. 

There's almost no critical thinking evident, at all. 49cfr probably took 6 years to pass her G.E.D.  College? I think not, and if she did manage to get accepted anywhere, I'd love to know what school it was. College of fork lift driving perhaps?

beam me up scotty   ;-)

You were beamed up decades ago.
Try to remember the kind of September when men weren't girls and girls weren't fellas..................
the49cfr Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #36
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 11:55:03Copy HTML

heh...you think they are infatuated with me or what?

I often have to remind myself that fools like ez and rat aren't representative of Americans. 
The world is a magical place full of people waiting to be offended by something.
DC3Cowboy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #37
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 03:29:29Copy HTML


If I drop a brick on a speedometer, I can affect the speed of the car, but that doesn't mean I'm controlling it. 



Nonsense. If you break the speedometer, it stops indicating the speed, but it will have no effect on the speed of the car. If you break a thermometer, does that affect the temperature? 

Climate radicals claim humans are causing Earth to warm up significantly by releasing CO2 into the atmosphere and also claim we can stop or reverse the increase by not burning anything for energy. In fact, some scientists now claim they can clean our atmosphere with giant fans that suck in vast quantities of air and scrub out the CO2. If we can increase Earth's temperature by increasing greenhouse gasses and lower it by decreasing those same gasses (and we can if our contribution/removal is massive enough), that is a form of control. Think of it as a giant thermostat. 

Of course the real purpose of the manufactured global warming 'crisis' is to deny capitalism cheap energy and justify socialism. That's why the IPCC's solution to global warming is wealth redistribution, AKA: socialism. 

I know how you despise being caught out, but you are dead wrong here, MRat. 



The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. - Thomas Jefferson Molon Labe
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #38
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 03:56:07Copy HTML

Reply to the49cfr
Go Google "speedometer" and get back to us. Dropping a brick on one doesn't affect the speed of a vehicle. 


You're an idiot and you prove it to us everyday. But what can we expect from a geriatric never been married, no offspring, can't drive a car, never owned a home, advocates murdering conservatives, SF metrosexual? I guess you're doing the best you can under your circumstances. 


lol. Your spleen is showing again.

You don't seem to get that after admitting that you spent 10 years in college, the first 6 taking remedial classes to get you up to the point you can take college level courses in colleges, it's going to be mighty hard for you to walk around calling others stupid.

PS, hubby been fluffing again? lolol. I find it MIGHTY odd that a bunch of supposed red-blooded gun totin' beer-bellied southern boys are so conversant and up to date with gay sex terms. Were I you, I'd be checking his shirt collars, if not for lipstick, at least for men's cologne.


heh...you think they are infatuated with me or what?
I often have to remind myself that fools like ez and rat aren't representative of Americans. 


Jesus. You do understand that we were actually having a civilized conversation before you dropped in? Even DC was attempting to make points, no matter how stupid it was, before you dropped by to sneer and shit on others.

But it's others infatuated with you?

Dude, buy a clue.

~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #39
  • From:Unknown

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 04:00:12Copy HTML

 None of that means climate change doesn't occur.  Of course it does.  Sometimes it's beneficial, sometimes not.  Sometimes it's beneficial in one geographic location, detrimental in another.

___


Well there you have it, a guy with zero understanding of ecological effects has it pretty much figured out.  Whew.  Glad we got that one taken care of.

mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #40
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 04:11:47Copy HTML

 Nonsense. If you break the speedometer, it stops indicating the speed, but it will have no effect on the speed of the car. If you break a thermometer, does that affect the temperature? 

Oy.

So there's this trick on the web where they jumble the letters in  words, or words in paragraphs. The ability of someone to interpolate meanings and intent comes into play. What they found basically is that most people can read a sentence properly even if the letters in each word are jumbled as long as the first and last letters of each word are correct. Most of us are able to interpolate meaning and content even if the specifics are wrong.

But some, slower people, can't.

The same principle applies here. I'm sorry you're so dense that you didn't get that I obviously meant accelerator and was just typing too fast. But since you and 49er probably mouth out words as you read, rather than being able to interpolate content in the same way most of us interpolate letters in a given word, then let me spell it out for you exceedingly slow people.

(Honestly, I would have expected 49er to get caught up in it, I credited you with a few more brains. Not many more, but enough.)

So, let me restate.

If you drop a brick on a accelerator (and damn if I didn't start writing speedometer again) then although you are affecting the speed of a car, you are not controlling it.

Likewise, if you are spewing millions of tons of carbons in the air, you are certainly affecting global warming, even if in a natural cycle, (which would, like a highway, have a normal limit) and increasing it. That doesn't mean you're controlling global warming or any sort of climate change. But you are affecting it.

~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #41
  • From:Unknown

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 04:29:11Copy HTML

 Likewise, if you are spewing millions of tons of carbons in the air, you are certainly affecting global warming, even if in a natural cycle, (which would, like a highway, have a normal limit) and increasing it. That doesn't mean you're controlling global warming or any sort of climate change. But you are affecting it.

___

We have less than zero control. Warming of the atmosphere can affect wind patterns, which affect ocean currents, which could freeze some parts of the world when we may have expected just the opposite.  There are too many potential feedback loops for us to predict accurately, let alone control anything. 

This is the biggest whopper of potential unintended consequences that the human race has ever marched into, yet we have morons in here who have decided with certainty it is nothing to be too concerned about.

the49cfr Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #42
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 11:04:29Copy HTML

"If you drop a brick on a accelerator"

HA!...see, you are trainable. 
The world is a magical place full of people waiting to be offended by something.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #43
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 11:13:10Copy HTML

 I read it as an accelerator.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
the49cfr Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #44
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 11:17:39Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

 I read it as an accelerator.

Then you don't know how to read. The guy that can't even drive a car posted "speedometer" clearly not knowing the difference between the two. You read it that way because you have your nose so far up his butt...you would never criticize the idiot.
The world is a magical place full of people waiting to be offended by something.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #45
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 11:20:23Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

 I read it as an accelerator.

I did too - I understood where Mickey was going.   Neither side was gracious there.
Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #46
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 11:21:21Copy HTML

On a related note - it seems that the general consensus is that some of the other planets in our solar system are experiencing warming also, yes?

Not sure if missed on the previous page, or what not.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
the49cfr Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #47
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 11:26:08Copy HTML

Are you serious? "speedometer" and "accelerator" ...completely two different words...not even close to same spelling. 

Good grief. 
The world is a magical place full of people waiting to be offended by something.
govols Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #48
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 11:32:47Copy HTML

Yeah, no. Not even close to the same word. 

But yeah, I followed the sentence to speed control device rather than speed monitoring instrument and thought throttle.
the49cfr Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #49
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 11:36:50Copy HTML

govols...does a speedometer control speed?
The world is a magical place full of people waiting to be offended by something.
govols Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #50
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:19-03-2018 11:42:05Copy HTML

Drop a brick on ___ and affect, but not control....
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #51
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:20-03-2018 12:23:10Copy HTML

Reply to the49cfr

Are you serious? "speedometer" and "accelerator" ...completely two different words...not even close to same spelling. 
Good grief. 

They are two different words.  He used the wrong word.   But his point was understood - which is separate from whether it is a good analogy or not.
Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #52
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:20-03-2018 01:51:25Copy HTML

 Unfortunately for you, 49er, your attempt at mockery seems to have fallen flat simply because most of us, at one time or another, in typing fast have inserted a word close to what we meant, if not the exact thing. A small minded person like yourself who moves their lips as they are reading are of course going to notice the error...those of us who read for content at a glance will automatically process it, even if we note the error, but not consider it much of a big dea.

But his point was understood - which is separate from whether it is a good analogy or not.

Well then, fine, I'm happy to address that. If folks don't think it's a good analogy for what we are doing to the atmosphere, then address that, not poor word choice. 

Of course, this is the same person who tries to minimize lit all the time for his admittedly poor spelling. Seems they have little to contribute to this board but childish carping. 
~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
DC3Cowboy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #53
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:20-03-2018 02:52:00Copy HTML

So here we have self-claimed, highly-educated Mr. Beavis Butthead of San Francisco telling me that I don't have a firm grasp on the English language, while he writes speedometer when he means accelerator. Now that there's funny, I don't care who you are!:



"Again, DC, because you are one of those uneducated folks, you don't know the English language well enough to understand the difference between controlling and affecting.

If I drop a brick on a speedometer, I can affect the speed of the car, but that doesn't mean I'm controlling it." 
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. - Thomas Jefferson Molon Labe
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #54
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:20-03-2018 03:09:55Copy HTML

 Well, what can I say, DC. It appears that most grasped it right away. But it appears also you have no counter to the argument, can we at least agree on that, that affecting something is not the same as controlling it. 
~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
easyrider123 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #55
  • From:Norway

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:20-03-2018 05:20:22Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 Likewise, if you are spewing millions of tons of carbons in the air, you are certainly affecting global warming, even if in a natural cycle, (which would, like a highway, have a normal limit) and increasing it. That doesn't mean you're controlling global warming or any sort of climate change. But you are affecting it.

___

We have less than zero control. Warming of the atmosphere can affect wind patterns, which affect ocean currents, which could freeze some parts of the world when we may have expected just the opposite.  There are too many potential feedback loops for us to predict accurately, let alone control anything. 

This is the biggest whopper of potential unintended consequences that the human race has ever marched into, yet we have morons in here who have decided with certainty it is nothing to be too concerned about.


bump!!!  
THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway.
the49cfr Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #56
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:20-03-2018 11:23:47Copy HTML

"So here we have self-claimed, highly-educated Mr. Beavis Butthead of San Francisco telling me that Idon't have a firm grasp on the English language, while he writes speedometer when he means accelerator. Now that there's funny, I don't care who you are!"

I though it was funny because it came from an idiot that can't drive...trying to use a car analogy he didn't understand. Like when he tries to do with our gun rights and the 2nd. He has not a f'ing clue.
The world is a magical place full of people waiting to be offended by something.
skrumpie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #57
  • From:Argentina

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:20-03-2018 01:48:18Copy HTML

 Likewise, if you are spewing millions of tons of carbons in the air, you are certainly affecting global warming, 


Is that like the millions of tons people who fly around the world and travel in-country by limousines and motorcades spew on their way to pontificate about spewing millions of tons of carbons into the air?


Try to remember the kind of September when men weren't girls and girls weren't fellas..................
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #58
  • From:Unknown

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:20-03-2018 03:55:21Copy HTML

Yes, like that Skrumpie. I imagine your pathetically inferior mind thought you were making some sort of point. 

The millions of tons from everyday people like you and I is far far greater than those you mock in this instance.  Because some rich people who preach about global warming use energy, that makes them hypocrites....we get it......so we should just ignore the science and the problem...right?  Make fun of it and pretend we are clever like yourself.

Sadly, you are a fucking idiot with nothing to say, yet here you are saying nothing all day.


skrumpie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #59
  • From:Argentina

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:20-03-2018 05:50:25Copy HTML

Poor thing.  Are your pantyhose too tight?
Try to remember the kind of September when men weren't girls and girls weren't fellas..................
Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #60
  • From:USA

Re:Finally, some rationality regarding climate change

Date Posted:20-03-2018 06:24:34Copy HTML

Behold skrumpie, the truly inexplicable phenomena of a (alleged) female misogynist.

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
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