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Tomlapaz
  • From:USA

Date Posted:30-04-2018 12:56:24Copy HTML

Below is a good piece on Acts 2:42, on what makes for a health church.  In fact, the church growth was explosive in the book of Acts.

04/09/18  Grace Mail

"All the believers devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching, and to fellowship, and to sharing in meals (including the Lord's Supper), and to prayer" (Acts 2:42).

In Acts 2:42, we read that was the priority of the early church: Bible study, fellowship, the breaking of bread and prayer.

One of our sister churches that we actually helped to start are meeting in a school, where they have to set up and tear down every Sunday morning. They have to pack everything in a trailer. As I was thinking about that, I was thinking of how many things they don't have. You think, "Doesn't a church have to have certain kinds of buildings?" "Don't they have to have certain types of furnishings?" "Don't you need a cross somewhere?" "Don't you need a steeple someplace?" "Don't you need a gymnasium and a golf course, and a pool?"

I think of what the early church didn't have and it was so successful! The early church didn't have any of that stuff. It didn't even have the stuff we have. And yet, people were getting saved, and it was more successful in the first century than the church has ever been since.

The Gospel went out into the entire world, and all they had was Bible study, fellowship, the breaking of bread and prayer.

So, I think that everything that a church does ought to center around one of those four things. We ought to be able to trace everything we do at Calvary back to the fact that it's either Bible study, it's a fellowship opportunity, it's the breaking of bread (which I believe speaks of the Lord's Supper prominent in services and available to people), and/or prayer. Everything should come back to that. Those are the priorities. If you can get to other things; they're not wrong, but these are the things a church ought to focus on.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:30-04-2018 12:41:28Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Below is a good piece on Acts 2:42, on what makes for a health church.  In fact, the church growth was explosive in the book of Acts.

04/09/18  Grace Mail

"All the believers devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching, and to fellowship, and to sharing in meals (including the Lord's Supper), and to prayer" (Acts 2:42).

In Acts 2:42, we read that was the priority of the early church: Bible study, fellowship, the breaking of bread and prayer.

One of our sister churches that we actually helped to start are meeting in a school, where they have to set up and tear down every Sunday morning. They have to pack everything in a trailer. As I was thinking about that, I was thinking of how many things they don't have. You think, "Doesn't a church have to have certain kinds of buildings?" "Don't they have to have certain types of furnishings?" "Don't you need a cross somewhere?" "Don't you need a steeple someplace?" "Don't you need a gymnasium and a golf course, and a pool?"

I think of what the early church didn't have and it was so successful! The early church didn't have any of that stuff. It didn't even have the stuff we have. And yet, people were getting saved, and it was more successful in the first century than the church has ever been since.

The Gospel went out into the entire world, and all they had was Bible study, fellowship, the breaking of bread and prayer.

So, I think that everything that a church does ought to center around one of those four things. We ought to be able to trace everything we do at Calvary back to the fact that it's either Bible study, it's a fellowship opportunity, it's the breaking of bread (which I believe speaks of the Lord's Supper prominent in services and available to people), and/or prayer. Everything should come back to that. Those are the priorities. If you can get to other things; they're not wrong, but these are the things a church ought to focus on.


For accuracy, remember there was NO "bible study" because the Bible at the time of the events in the Book of Acts had not been established yet AND the New testament wasn't even written yet.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:30-04-2018 07:53:53Copy HTML

Sheep! they want sheep.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:30-04-2018 11:00:02Copy HTML

For accuracy, remember there was NO "bible study" because the Bible at the time of the events in the Book of Acts had not been established yet AND the New testament wasn't even written yet.

They had (and we still have) the Hebrew scriptures.  What is commonly called the Old Testament.

And they also has the apostles' teachings.   As noted in the verse.


That is all that is meant by 'Bible Study' here.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:01-05-2018 12:23:29Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

For accuracy, remember there was NO "bible study" because the Bible at the time of the events in the Book of Acts had not been established yet AND the New testament wasn't even written yet.

They had (and we still have) the Hebrew scriptures.  What is commonly called the Old Testament.

And they also has the apostles' teachings.   As noted in the verse.


That is all that is meant by 'Bible Study' here.


Duly noted, but it might give a FALSE impression to others. The Hebrew Scriptures were not codified until the Council of Jamnia, as the Old testament is comprised today.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:01-05-2018 10:20:11Copy HTML

Had to look that up - does not seem to have a lot of historical support for that council.

At least as far as it actually being a council to decide, for the first time, on which books - Jesus, for example, referenced almost all of the books himself in the Gospels.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:01-05-2018 12:04:02Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Had to look that up - does not seem to have a lot of historical support for that council.

At least as far as it actually being a council to decide, for the first time, on which books - Jesus, for example, referenced almost all of the books himself in the Gospels.


"...The Council of Jamnia, presumably held in Yavneh in the Holy Land, was a hypothetical late 1st-century council at which the canon of the Hebrew Bible was formerly believed to have been finalized and which may also have been the occasion when the Jewish authorities decided to exclude believers in Jesus as the Messiah from synagogue attendance, as referenced by interpretations of John 9:22 in the New Testament.[1] The writing of the Birkat ha-Minim benediction is attributed to Shmuel ha-Katan at the supposed Council of Jamnia..."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Jamnia

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:01-05-2018 12:13:05Copy HTML

Yeah, I saw that same article, about it being hypothetical.

Apparently there was some informal gathering at Jamnia to discuss the canon - but it was clearly known in Jesus' day, given his own remarks in the gospels.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:01-05-2018 12:19:45Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Yeah, I saw that same article, about it being hypothetical.

Apparently there was some informal gathering at Jamnia to discuss the canon - but it was clearly known in Jesus' day, given his own remarks in the gospels.


The books were common and generally known as SCRIPTURES. You had sections, like the first Five books agreed to, books of the prophets agreed to etc but not put together as " the Hebrew bible" or "old restatement"


https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-council-that-wasnt

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:01-05-2018 12:24:05Copy HTML

Again, Jesus quoted from just about every book that we currently use as the 'Old Testament' - and did not quote from any book outside of it (as far as I know).

So the Jews pretty much understood which books were Scripture.   The Bereans, for example, that Luke refers to in the book of Acts.

And even with several of the OT books it is clear that they identify themselves as Scripture.

Jamnia seems to be more a reaction towards Jews embracing the teachings of Jesus and those he selected.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:01-05-2018 12:34:28Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Again, Jesus quoted from just about every book that we currently use as the 'Old Testament' - and did not quote from any book outside of it (as far as I know).

So the Jews pretty much understood which books were Scripture.   The Bereans, for example, that Luke refers to in the book of Acts.

And even with several of the OT books it is clear that they identify themselves as Scripture.

Jamnia seems to be more a reaction towards Jews embracing the teachings of Jesus and those he selected.


"...The Catholic scholars Jahn, Movers, Nickes, Danko, Haneberg, Aicher, without sharing all the views of the advanced exegetes, regard the Hebrew Hagiographa as not definitely settled till after Christ. It is an incontestable fact that the sacredness of certain parts of the Palestinian Bible (Esther, Ecclesiastes, Canticle of Canticles) was disputed by some rabbis as late as the second century of the Christian Era (Mishna, Yadaim, III, 5; Babylonian Talmud, Megilla, fol. 7). However differing as to dates, the critics are assured that the distinction between the Hagiographa and the Prophetic Canon was one essentially chronological...."


http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:01-05-2018 11:23:07Copy HTML

Again, I am going by the words of Jesus himself, as well as the writers of the New Testament. 


And even the Old Testament. 

Clearly, where there is any disagreement, the above would prevail.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:02-05-2018 01:54:15Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Again, I am going by the words of Jesus himself, as well as the writers of the New Testament. 


And even the Old Testament. 

Clearly, where there is any disagreement, the above would prevail.


Jesus quoted from scriptures, absolutely. But you are perhaps giving the wrong picture when you state that the First and early Christians engaged in Bible study, a connotation as we know it today. Jesus' quoting from those scriptures were established in the Jewish tradition and not by codification.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:02-05-2018 10:37:15Copy HTML

Bible study is the study of scripture, yes?

If so that would include whatever Jesus and the disciples were calling scripture.  And teachings of the apostles also of course.  

Frankly, regardless, not a biggie - I think the average Christian would get the point being made by the devotion. 

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #14
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:03-05-2018 12:07:49Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Bible study is the study of scripture, yes?

If so that would include whatever Jesus and the disciples were calling scripture.  And teachings of the apostles also of course.  

Frankly, regardless, not a biggie - I think the average Christian would get the point being made by the devotion. 


You are playing with semantics here.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #15
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:03-05-2018 02:35:53Copy HTML

Sounds like we both are.

Not really sure what your point is.   Clearly Jesus, the Pharisees, the disciples, the Bereans, etc. - all knew what the Word of God was regarding what we now call the Old Testament.

Not sure what you think the council at Jamnia adds to it, particularly given it was composed of those who, having rejected Jesus, did not have the Spirit of God leading them.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:04-05-2018 01:33:29Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Sounds like we both are.

Not really sure what your point is.   Clearly Jesus, the Pharisees, the disciples, the Bereans, etc. - all knew what the Word of God was regarding what we now call the Old Testament.

Not sure what you think the council at Jamnia adds to it, particularly given it was composed of those who, having rejected Jesus, did not have the Spirit of God leading them.


trying to clarify here. When you say Bible study, in TODAY'S connotation it gives a different picture than was probably taking place at the time as there was NO BIBLE. There were scriptures which in the time of the EARLY Christians were more QUOTED than poured over as we may study the written word more today. The apostles PREACHED the word, their epistles were written to supplement the oral teachings of the time. The Jewish canon was understood but not codified as such, so when references were made to scriptures at the time, they referred to individual books KNOWN to the Jews and referred to over time.

The phrase BIBLE STUDY, as we know it today, is different than what the early Christians did, although it all  does revolve around the revealed word of God.

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #17
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:04-05-2018 01:48:32Copy HTML

Interesting.   Different picture than what one gets reading the Bible (Genesis forward through the Gospels, etc) - but it is an interesting opinion.
Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #18
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:04-05-2018 01:55:43Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Interesting.   Different picture than what one gets reading the Bible (Genesis forward through the Gospels, etc) - but it is an interesting opinion.

When you read the Gospels, you have to understand that those actions that were written LATER, in REAL time was being PREACHED orally. There was no reference to NT or Bible because at that time the early chuch was burgeoning, converts were being brought in by the words being said, with the power of the SPIRIT behind them.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #19
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:04-05-2018 02:03:19Copy HTML

Ok, not sure why 'later' matters, though that may depend on what you mean by that.


Let me ask this - the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation - is the Word of God, yes? God breathed as Paul says.  2 Timothy 3:16

   If a teaching, be it from a Baptist pastor, Roman Catholic pope or bishop, Protestant preacher - whoever - if such teaching contradicts the Word of God, it is false, yes?

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #20
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:04-05-2018 02:06:22Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Ok, not sure why 'later' matters, though that may depend on what you mean by that.


Let me ask this - the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation - is the Word of God, yes? God breathed as Paul says.  2 Timothy 3:16

   If a teaching, be it from a Baptist pastor, Roman Catholic pope or bishop, Protestant preacher - whoever - if such teaching contradicts the Word of God, it is false, yes?


Absolutely.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #21
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:04-05-2018 02:15:25Copy HTML

Ok, so 'later' actually underlines my point.

Before the NT was written, folk were pouring over the written word (like the Bereans) - so that had to be the OT, since, as you note, the NT was not yet written.  Jesus refers to the written word, the Pharisees refer to it, it is referred to in the OT, etc.


Honestly, I think your initial objection over 'Bible study' was semantics - which is fine - but keep in mind that for many, it means studying the written word.   And the written word existed at the time of the birth of Jesus, as we read in the Gospels, Acts, and even in the OT.

And today, it includes the NT.   Priority is for the study of apostles' teaching (which referenced the OT as we see from the NT writings), fellowship, the breaking of bread and prayer.

Gym, pool, great building, etc. - all good and fine, but further down the list, and not at all essential.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #22
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:04-05-2018 02:22:52Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Ok, so 'later' actually underlines my point.

Before the NT was written, folk were pouring over the written word (like the Bereans) - so that had to be the OT, since, as you note, the NT was not yet written.  Jesus refers to the written word, the Pharisees refer to it, it is referred to in the OT, etc.


Honestly, I think your initial objection over 'Bible study' was semantics - which is fine - but keep in mind that for many, it means studying the written word.   And the written word existed at the time of the birth of Jesus, as we read in the Gospels, Acts, and even in the OT.

And today, it includes the NT.   Priority is for the study of apostles' teaching (which referenced the OT as we see from the NT writings), fellowship, the breaking of bread and prayer.

Gym, pool, great building, etc. - all good and fine, but further down the list, and not at all essential.


No, the EARLY Christians were not sitting there pouring over the word, a connotation that they were sitting there with open books and such, examining the printed word, the OT was referenced orally but was not a major component of the EARLY Christian church. the focus was on the life, actions, words , and purpose of Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-16 (RSV)

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning[a] to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit[b] and belief in the truth.

14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 

 15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #23
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:04-05-2018 02:26:52Copy HTML

 when you open and READ the NT today, you will note that Jesus did not tell followers to open their books. they had none with them as they were moved by the power and the authority of what he SAID.

The Apostles after Jesus ascended, did not gather followers to READ from their books, they had none. They SPOKE to the followers present and the AUTHORITY of the SPIRIT moved them, not the printed words in a book they did not have present. many were acquainted with the scriptures BUT what moved them was the power and authority of the words being spoken at the time of preaching.

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #24
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:04-05-2018 02:33:05Copy HTML

 Acts 20:20-25  (RSV)

20 how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you in public and from house to house, 

 21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance to God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. 

 22 And now, behold, I am going to Jerusalem, bound in the Spirit, not knowing what shall befall me there; 

 23 except that the Holy Spirit testifies to me in every city that imprisonment and afflictions await me. 

 24 But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may accomplish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.

  25 And now, behold, I know that all you among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom will see my face no more.

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #25
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:04-05-2018 03:48:03Copy HTML

I am fine not using the phrase 'Bible Study' if that concerns you.

But they were searching the Scriptures.  Nothing you quoted contradicts that.  If it does,  you will need to explicitly explain how given the below (in addition to Paul's 2 Timothy 6:16..)


Jesus in John 5:39 forward:   39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

The Bereans in response to hearing Paul's teachings (like some of the verses you quoted) - Acts 17:11:  11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.


The Pharisees even tell Nicodemus to search the scriptures, thinking that doing so will show Jesus is not the Messiah.  John 7


And Jesus refers to the written scriptures throughout the gospels.  And references are made to the OT ("as it is written") even in the epistles.      Not sure why this is such an issue for you, frankly.  


Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #26
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:04-05-2018 02:22:00Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

I am fine not using the phrase 'Bible Study' if that concerns you.

But they were searching the Scriptures.  Nothing you quoted contradicts that.  If it does,  you will need to explicitly explain how given the below (in addition to Paul's 2 Timothy 6:16..)


Jesus in John 5:39 forward:   39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

The Bereans in response to hearing Paul's teachings (like some of the verses you quoted) - Acts 17:11:  11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.


The Pharisees even tell Nicodemus to search the scriptures, thinking that doing so will show Jesus is not the Messiah.  John 7


And Jesus refers to the written scriptures throughout the gospels.  And references are made to the OT ("as it is written") even in the epistles.      Not sure why this is such an issue for you, frankly.  



No argument they searched them AND referred to them as 2 Tim 3:16 says :

2 Timothy 3:16  (RSV)

16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Now, on a board where you have MANY hostile to the TRUTH, it becomes even MORE necessary to be accurate. The 'bible study'  phrase gives a wrong picture as it connotates the early Christians engaged a great deal of time in pouring over scriptures rather than join in communion to HEAR the preaching and remember the sacrifice of Christ. Scriptures were used and referred to BUT mostly the Word of God was preached as there was NO "bible" as we know of it to speak of. Opponents, especially on this board will come back and say such as " you got your dates wrong so this can't be the word of god, etc". Just trying to be accurate here.

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #27
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:04-05-2018 09:34:01Copy HTML

I think this is over semantics.

So, yes, there were writings recognized as Jewish Scripture - as being the Word of God - which books belonging to that - your point is that there were not a lot of written copies of it available for folk to read?

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #28
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:05-05-2018 03:21:05Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

I think this is over semantics.

So, yes, there were writings recognized as Jewish Scripture - as being the Word of God - which books belonging to that - your point is that there were not a lot of written copies of it available for folk to read?

My point is it wasn't called BIBLE STUDY, there was NO BIBLE as of that point in time.

Also the early Christians didn't gather to study the scriptures, although the scriptures may have been a PIECE of the gathering. the early Christians gathered "in communion" to remember the sacrifice of Christ and to hear the word PREACHED, orally.

The LYNCHPIN, or central point on which Christianity rests is NOT scriptural study BUT acceptance of the oneness of Jesus and the Father, as God incarnate AND the sacrifice he took on for us on the cross.

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #29
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:05-05-2018 03:26:00Copy HTML

 "...The Catholic scholars Jahn, Movers, Nickes, Danko, Haneberg, Aicher, without sharing all the views of the advanced exegetes, regard the Hebrew Hagiographa as not definitely settled till after Christ. It is an incontestable fact that the sacredness of certain parts of the Palestinian Bible (Esther, Ecclesiastes, Canticle of Canticles) was disputed by some rabbis as late as the second century of the Christian Era (Mishna, Yadaim, III, 5; Babylonian Talmud, Megilla, fol. 7). However differing as to dates, the critics are assured that the distinction between the Hagiographa and the Prophetic Canon was one essentially chronological...."


http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm

skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #30
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:05-05-2018 04:24:43Copy HTML

 Where does killing everyone who believes in other gods come in? 

“If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or ythe wife you embrace2 or your friend zwho is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ awhich neither you nor your fathers have known, some bof the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall cnot yield to him or listen to him, nor dshall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. eYour hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 fYou shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 And gall Israel shall hear and fear and never again do any such wickedness as this among you.

12 “If you hear in one of your cities, which the Lord your God is giving you to dwell there, 13 that certain hworthless fellows have gone out among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, 14 then you shall inquire and make search and ask idiligently. And behold, if it be true and certain that such an abomination has been done among you, 15 you shall surely put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, devoting it to destruction,3 all who are in it and its cattle, with the edge of the sword. 16 You shall gather all its spoil into the midst of its open square and jburn the city and all its spoil with fire, as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. It shall be a kheap forever. It shall not be built again. 17 lNone of the devoted things shall stick to your hand, mthat the Lord may turn from the fierceness of his anger and show you mercy and have compassion on you and multiply you, nas he swore to your fathers, 18 if you obey the voice of the Lord your God, okeeping all his commandments that I am commanding you today, and doing what is right in the sight of the Lord your God

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
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