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Tomlapaz
  • From:USA

Date Posted:30-04-2018 12:56:24

Below is a good piece on Acts 2:42, on what makes for a health church.  In fact, the church growth was explosive in the book of Acts.

04/09/18  Grace Mail

"All the believers devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching, and to fellowship, and to sharing in meals (including the Lord's Supper), and to prayer" (Acts 2:42).

In Acts 2:42, we read that was the priority of the early church: Bible study, fellowship, the breaking of bread and prayer.

One of our sister churches that we actually helped to start are meeting in a school, where they have to set up and tear down every Sunday morning. They have to pack everything in a trailer. As I was thinking about that, I was thinking of how many things they don't have. You think, "Doesn't a church have to have certain kinds of buildings?" "Don't they have to have certain types of furnishings?" "Don't you need a cross somewhere?" "Don't you need a steeple someplace?" "Don't you need a gymnasium and a golf course, and a pool?"

I think of what the early church didn't have and it was so successful! The early church didn't have any of that stuff. It didn't even have the stuff we have. And yet, people were getting saved, and it was more successful in the first century than the church has ever been since.

The Gospel went out into the entire world, and all they had was Bible study, fellowship, the breaking of bread and prayer.

So, I think that everything that a church does ought to center around one of those four things. We ought to be able to trace everything we do at Calvary back to the fact that it's either Bible study, it's a fellowship opportunity, it's the breaking of bread (which I believe speaks of the Lord's Supper prominent in services and available to people), and/or prayer. Everything should come back to that. Those are the priorities. If you can get to other things; they're not wrong, but these are the things a church ought to focus on.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #31
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:05-05-2018 04:32:57

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

I think this is over semantics.

So, yes, there were writings recognized as Jewish Scripture - as being the Word of God - which books belonging to that - your point is that there were not a lot of written copies of it available for folk to read?

My point is it wasn't called BIBLE STUDY, there was NO BIBLE as of that point in time.

Also the early Christians didn't gather to study the scriptures, although the scriptures may have been a PIECE of the gathering. the early Christians gathered "in communion" to remember the sacrifice of Christ and to hear the word PREACHED, orally.

The LYNCHPIN, or central point on which Christianity rests is NOT scriptural study BUT acceptance of the oneness of Jesus and the Father, as God incarnate AND the sacrifice he took on for us on the cross.


See, that does sound like it is more an issue of semantics.   The verse I quote from Acts - the apostles' teaching would include what we call today the Old Testament, the Jewish Scriptures - the Word of God - and we can see that from the Gospels, the Book of Acts, etc.  They studied the scriptures - even when all they had was the Jewish Scriptures (the Bereans being an example as noted above). 

Now, whether there was one written copy, and someone read it, and they all discussed - or whether they carried around their own copies - is moot.  In fact, not till the invention of the printing press in Europe did many folk started having their own copies.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #32
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:06-05-2018 02:55:17

Reply to Tomlapaz

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

I think this is over semantics.

So, yes, there were writings recognized as Jewish Scripture - as being the Word of God - which books belonging to that - your point is that there were not a lot of written copies of it available for folk to read?

My point is it wasn't called BIBLE STUDY, there was NO BIBLE as of that point in time.

Also the early Christians didn't gather to study the scriptures, although the scriptures may have been a PIECE of the gathering. the early Christians gathered "in communion" to remember the sacrifice of Christ and to hear the word PREACHED, orally.

The LYNCHPIN, or central point on which Christianity rests is NOT scriptural study BUT acceptance of the oneness of Jesus and the Father, as God incarnate AND the sacrifice he took on for us on the cross.


See, that does sound like it is more an issue of semantics.   The verse I quote from Acts - the apostles' teaching would include what we call today the Old Testament, the Jewish Scriptures - the Word of God - and we can see that from the Gospels, the Book of Acts, etc.  They studied the scriptures - even when all they had was the Jewish Scriptures (the Bereans being an example as noted above). 

Now, whether there was one written copy, and someone read it, and they all discussed - or whether they carried around their own copies - is moot.  In fact, not till the invention of the printing press in Europe did many folk started having their own copies.


You are making it sound as if this occupied a majority of time, such as the Jews did with scriptures, but it is important to understand that Christianity is NOT a continuation of Judaism. Scriptures were talked about but , NOT semantics, POURED over. The focus was NOT scriptural study as you seem to imply.

Acts 18:5-8  (RSV)

When Silas and Timothy arrived from Macedo′nia, Paul was occupied with preaching, testifying to the Jews that the Christ was Jesus. 

 And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, “Your blood be upon your heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.” 

 And he left there and went to the house of a man named Titius[a] Justus, a worshiper of God; his house was next door to the synagogue. 

 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with all his household; and many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #33
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:06-05-2018 03:03:06

None of those contradict what I have been saying, wale63.

They are true ALSO.   They do not contradict other verses in the NT.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #34
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:06-05-2018 03:06:40

Let me ask this - the apostles' teaching included the Jewish Scriptures, yes?
Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #35
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:06-05-2018 06:40:06

Reply to Tomlapaz

None of those contradict what I have been saying, wale63.

They are true ALSO.   They do not contradict other verses in the NT.


Actually it does for if you read MORE of the NT you'll find that the early Christians experiences were more experiential and spiritual. YOU seem fixated on this BIBLE STUDY stuff for some reason, as if the early Christians sat around and were like...... Jews.

Are you in one of those Jews for Jesus kind of movements?

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #36
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:06-05-2018 06:42:49

Reply to Tomlapaz

Let me ask this - the apostles' teaching included the Jewish Scriptures, yes?


Let ME ask THIS, what is your fixation with the Jewish Scriptures?

 they existed, they were quoted from time to time BUT these early Christians time, a majority of it, was not spent just sitting around studying scriptures, as you would paint the picture of . Why are you fixated on this?

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #37
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:06-05-2018 06:54:03

 Galatians 5:4  (RSV)

You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #38
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:06-05-2018 07:28:36

 Galatians 5:16  (GNT)

16 What I say is this: let the Spirit direct your lives, and you will not satisfy the desires of the human nature.


Galatians 5:19-21  (GNT)

19 What human nature does is quite plain. It shows itself in immoral, filthy, and indecent actions; 

 20 in worship of idols and witchcraft. People become enemies and they fight; they become jealous, angry, and ambitious. They separate into parties and groups; 

 21 they are envious, get drunk, have orgies, and do other things like these. I warn you now as I have before: those who do these things will not possess the Kingdom of God.

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #39
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:06-05-2018 07:30:38

 Ephesians 3:16-17  (MEV)

16 that He would give you, according to the riches of His glory, power to be strengthened by His Spirit in the inner man, 

 17 and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,


wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #40
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:06-05-2018 07:33:48

 Titus 2:11-12  (GNT)

11 For God has revealed his grace for the salvation of all people. 

 12 That grace instructs us to give up ungodly living and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in this world,


Titus 2:15  (GNT)

15 Teach these things and use your full authority as you encourage and rebuke your hearers. Let none of them look down on you.

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #41
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:06-05-2018 10:30:49

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

Let me ask this - the apostles' teaching included the Jewish Scriptures, yes?


Let ME ask THIS, what is your fixation with the Jewish Scriptures?

 they existed, they were quoted from time to time BUT these early Christians time, a majority of it, was not spent just sitting around studying scriptures, as you would paint the picture of . Why are you fixated on this?


Fixation?   You mean, the same scriptures that the writers of the NT kept referring to?

If anything, it seems you have an issue with them?


So again, I ask - the apostle's teachings included the Jewish Scriptures, yes?  The answer is yes of course - and I assumed you would have agreed - but maybe I should not assume?

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #42
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:07-05-2018 12:38:33

Reply to Tomlapaz

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

Let me ask this - the apostles' teaching included the Jewish Scriptures, yes?


Let ME ask THIS, what is your fixation with the Jewish Scriptures?

 they existed, they were quoted from time to time BUT these early Christians time, a majority of it, was not spent just sitting around studying scriptures, as you would paint the picture of . Why are you fixated on this?


Fixation?   You mean, the same scriptures that the writers of the NT kept referring to?

If anything, it seems you have an issue with them?


So again, I ask - the apostle's teachings included the Jewish Scriptures, yes?  The answer is yes of course - and I assumed you would have agreed - but maybe I should not assume?

You are going around in circles here BUT you are giving a misleading picture once again. If you are a Christian, you have a responsibility to get it correct. The EARLY Christians were NOT engaged in BIBLE STUDY, as YOU have portrayed it. I gave you a smattering of NT passages to show you that the NT is much more replete with the sources of their teaching. reference to Jewish Scriptures they did BUT that ought not to be misinterpreted, as you seem to have , as in depth BIBLE STUDY. the Apostles, as the NT in it's entirety will show, is they relied on the AUTHORITY of the SPIRIT which empowered them. Being a Christian was not, and IS not based on knowledge of the Jewish Scriptures, although they are referred to but only a small piece of the puzzle. AGAIN, you haven't really answered, WHY do you focus on this disproportionate idea of intensive BIBLE STUDY on the part of the EARLY Christians, which didn't exist AND why do you emphasize the OT ( Jewish Scriptures )?. Christ fulfilled the scriptures BUT his authority and the works of the Apostles were based on the pouring of the SPIRIT upon them . A basic reading of the entire NT will show that.
Are you one a member of one of these Jews for Jesus movements?
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #43
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:07-05-2018 01:14:31

No, I am not - and really, if you get so inclined, would like a simple answer to the question from before.

Frankly, I think you are jumping to conclusions as to where I am going, and frankly, I am trying to avoid doing the same thing.


Or maybe if preferred, let me ask you this.  In 2nd Timothy 3:16 below, from Paul, what scripture is he referring to?   What we call today the Old Testament, or the New Testament, or both?

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #44
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:07-05-2018 01:20:20

Reply to Tomlapaz

No, I am not - and really, if you get so inclined, would like a simple answer to the question from before.

Frankly, I think you are jumping to conclusions as to where I am going, and frankly, I am trying to avoid doing the same thing.


Or maybe if preferred, let me ask you this.  In 2nd Timothy 3:16 below, from Paul, what scripture is he referring to?   What we call today the Old Testament, or the New Testament, or both?

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness


Yes

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.."

BUT that doesn't mean or establish that early Christians were engaged as YOU say and want to portray, in an in depth BIBLE STUDY. The scriptures being inspired doesn't mean their activities revolved around this as you keep incorrectly saying. You are giving a false picture of early Christinas and their practices. they were not like the ESSENES, for example.

refer to the ENTIRETY of the NT

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #45
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:07-05-2018 01:23:48

 Philippians 4:9  (GNT)

Put into practice what you learned and received from me, both from my words and from my actions. And the God who gives us peace will be with you.

skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #46
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:07-05-2018 04:48:53

 Let me ask this - the apostles' teaching included the Jewish Scriptures, yes?

___ 

The apostles were jewish....so I'm going to go out on a limb and guess yes.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #47
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:07-05-2018 06:00:55

Reply to skwanderer

 Let me ask this - the apostles' teaching included the Jewish Scriptures, yes?

___ 

The apostles were jewish....so I'm going to go out on a limb and guess yes.


Asked and answered in depth previously.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #48
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:07-05-2018 07:11:15

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

No, I am not - and really, if you get so inclined, would like a simple answer to the question from before.

Frankly, I think you are jumping to conclusions as to where I am going, and frankly, I am trying to avoid doing the same thing.


Or maybe if preferred, let me ask you this.  In 2nd Timothy 3:16 below, from Paul, what scripture is he referring to?   What we call today the Old Testament, or the New Testament, or both?

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness


Yes

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.."

BUT that doesn't mean or establish that early Christians were engaged as YOU say and want to portray, in an in depth BIBLE STUDY. The scriptures being inspired doesn't mean their activities revolved around this as you keep incorrectly saying. You are giving a false picture of early Christinas and their practices. they were not like the ESSENES, for example.

refer to the ENTIRETY of the NT


I actually gave 3 options (What we call today the Old Testament, or the New Testament, or both?) and you answered 'Yes'.   Yes is to which option?
Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #49
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:07-05-2018 08:48:59

Reply to Tomlapaz

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

No, I am not - and really, if you get so inclined, would like a simple answer to the question from before.

Frankly, I think you are jumping to conclusions as to where I am going, and frankly, I am trying to avoid doing the same thing.


Or maybe if preferred, let me ask you this.  In 2nd Timothy 3:16 below, from Paul, what scripture is he referring to?   What we call today the Old Testament, or the New Testament, or both?

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness


Yes

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.."

BUT that doesn't mean or establish that early Christians were engaged as YOU say and want to portray, in an in depth BIBLE STUDY. The scriptures being inspired doesn't mean their activities revolved around this as you keep incorrectly saying. You are giving a false picture of early Christinas and their practices. they were not like the ESSENES, for example.

refer to the ENTIRETY of the NT


I actually gave 3 options (What we call today the Old Testament, or the New Testament, or both?) and you answered 'Yes'.   Yes is to which option?

First address my point that early Christians were NOT engaged as YOU say and want to portray, in an in depth BIBLE STUDY. The scriptures being inspired doesn't mean their activities revolved around this as you keep incorrectly saying. You are giving a false picture of early Christinas and their practices. they were not like the ESSENES, for example.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #50
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:07-05-2018 11:17:42

I am getting to your point - which is why I asked that question.   I think you are wrong - so this is just on the way to trying to confirm that, if I am right.

But if you do not wish to answer that is fine.   I honestly do not think this is a do or die position for the Christian.  

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #51
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:08-05-2018 01:01:16

Reply to Tomlapaz

I am getting to your point - which is why I asked that question.   I think you are wrong - so this is just on the way to trying to confirm that, if I am right.

But if you do not wish to answer that is fine.   I honestly do not think this is a do or die position for the Christian.  


Your basis for this, other than your opinion? NT shows your statements to be incorrect. your continual insistence on the disproportionate picture of "bible study' is incorrect . read through the NT and do not  use your opinions as a basis for TRUTH.

TRUTH is the early Christians did NOT engage in what you like to say is BIBLE STUDY, nor did they pour over the JEWISH scriptures (OT) . they referred to them. early converts were Jews so no need to engage in BIBLE STUDY, which didn't exist, because the Jews were well familiar with the OT. You've been provided with representative passages showing that the PREACHING and receiving of the SPIRIT was of the utmost importance.

When you say I am wrong because you think so, you ought to provide sources that show that to be. As a professing Christian you have a responsibility to the TRUTH and not to what you mistakenly interpret.

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #52
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:08-05-2018 02:36:47

Again, I am hoping to show why I think you are wrong - step by step.

First one is to answer the above question (first step in the argument).   If you are convinced I am wrong, what is the objection?


But again - you just want to then leave this as is, we are good there also.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #53
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:08-05-2018 01:38:22

Reply to Tomlapaz

Again, I am hoping to show why I think you are wrong - step by step.

First one is to answer the above question (first step in the argument).   If you are convinced I am wrong, what is the objection?


But again - you just want to then leave this as is, we are good there also.


You've shown nothing supporting your erroneous assertions. I've shown you a representation of statements that more accurately reflect the practices of the Early Christians AND the entire NT will support me on that.

What is your fixation with painting this FALSE picture of BIBLE STUDY? What is your purpose and what is your motivation?

"All the believers devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching, and to fellowship, and to sharing in meals (including the Lord's Supper), and to prayer" (Acts 2:42).

The APOSTLES teaching was based on the AUTHORUTY of the SPIRIT of Jesus and oral preaching based on that . THE NT tells us this. NOT as you say, "bible study"

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #54
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:08-05-2018 11:48:51

You've shown nothing supporting your erroneous assertions.

Well,  if you are not going to answer the questions that helps build my case, of course.


But again, we are at a stalemate then.   So moving on - being new on the board, where do you hail from?   Young person, older person?   What kind of stuff you do for a living?

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #55
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:09-05-2018 12:34:37

Reply to Tomlapaz

You've shown nothing supporting your erroneous assertions.

Well,  if you are not going to answer the questions that helps build my case, of course.


But again, we are at a stalemate then.   So moving on - being new on the board, where do you hail from?   Young person, older person?   What kind of stuff you do for a living?


We aren't at a stalemate. The NT shows your premise to be incorrect. Simple.

I've answered your questions and you can't accept that. What kind of a Christian are you if you aren't going to be truthful and evasive?

Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #56
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:09-05-2018 08:03:59

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

You've shown nothing supporting your erroneous assertions.

Well,  if you are not going to answer the questions that helps build my case, of course.


But again, we are at a stalemate then.   So moving on - being new on the board, where do you hail from?   Young person, older person?   What kind of stuff you do for a living?


We aren't at a stalemate. The NT shows your premise to be incorrect. Simple.

I've answered your questions and you can't accept that. What kind of a Christian are you if you aren't going to be truthful and evasive?


Both of you evade many questions asked of you.  Neither of you are prepared to produce any case to deny evolution is the most obvious example. To this I could add the absence of explanation why there are so many contradictions in the gospels.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #57
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:09-05-2018 09:44:08

Reply to Yobbo

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

You've shown nothing supporting your erroneous assertions.

Well,  if you are not going to answer the questions that helps build my case, of course.


But again, we are at a stalemate then.   So moving on - being new on the board, where do you hail from?   Young person, older person?   What kind of stuff you do for a living?


We aren't at a stalemate. The NT shows your premise to be incorrect. Simple.

I've answered your questions and you can't accept that. What kind of a Christian are you if you aren't going to be truthful and evasive?


Both of you evade many questions asked of you.  Neither of you are prepared to produce any case to deny evolution is the most obvious example. To this I could add the absence of explanation why there are so many contradictions in the gospels.


You've been answered on the PERCEIVED contradictions that YOU think are there but aren't,.

secondly, my responses to Tomlapaz have nothing to do with evolution so be aware of that.

third , I have responded to the fallacy that evolution is a so called fact, but types like yourself reject that,

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #58
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:09-05-2018 10:31:52

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

You've shown nothing supporting your erroneous assertions.

Well,  if you are not going to answer the questions that helps build my case, of course.


But again, we are at a stalemate then.   So moving on - being new on the board, where do you hail from?   Young person, older person?   What kind of stuff you do for a living?


We aren't at a stalemate. The NT shows your premise to be incorrect. Simple.

I've answered your questions and you can't accept that. What kind of a Christian are you if you aren't going to be truthful and evasive?


Ok, sorry, I could have missed it.  So, if you can kindly repeat, below, your answer of 'Yes' is to which one? I honestly did not see it if you answered that below (be gone for a week starting tomorrow, btw.).


I actually gave 3 options (What we call today the Old Testament, or the New Testament, or both?) and you answered 'Yes'.   Yes is to which option?

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #59
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:09-05-2018 10:44:57

Reply to Tomlapaz

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

You've shown nothing supporting your erroneous assertions.

Well,  if you are not going to answer the questions that helps build my case, of course.


But again, we are at a stalemate then.   So moving on - being new on the board, where do you hail from?   Young person, older person?   What kind of stuff you do for a living?


We aren't at a stalemate. The NT shows your premise to be incorrect. Simple.

I've answered your questions and you can't accept that. What kind of a Christian are you if you aren't going to be truthful and evasive?


Ok, sorry, I could have missed it.  So, if you can kindly repeat, below, your answer of 'Yes' is to which one? I honestly did not see it if you answered that below (be gone for a week starting tomorrow, btw.).


I actually gave 3 options (What we call today the Old Testament, or the New Testament, or both?) and you answered 'Yes'.   Yes is to which option?


The NT shows your premise to be incorrect. Simple.

I've answered your questions and you can't accept that. What kind of a Christian are you if you aren't going to be truthful and evasive?

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  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:10-05-2018 12:56:24

Well, on the outside chance that I am missing something - here is the verse below.


2 Timothy 3:16  (RSV)

16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

I actually gave  3 options  (What we call today the Old Testament, or the New Testament, or both?) and you answered 'Yes'.    Yes is to which option?


 So, when you said 'Yes' - what I am asking is:

1.Did you mean the entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation?

2.Did you mean just from Genesis up to but including the Gospels?

3.Did you mean the Gospels through to Revelation?

4.Or if something else - please explain.


Now, not really sure why you avoiding being specific on this.   And frankly, I did this dance with Skw, and even Yobbo, and I have no interest in such - but since you are a believer, am really curious why you cannot be specific here.   I can understand why Skw and Yobbo do this.

But that in the end is up to you.  Frankly though, it does give me the impression that you are in some doubt now, or some such.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
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