Dear Aimoo User:

We added a function of Aimoo Ticket. If you met errors in Aimoo, you can add ticket to us. we will confirm it and process it first.
Free Speech
FSA Ticket | Today | Join | Member | Search | Help | Sign In | |
FSA > Theology and Spirtuality > This life and the after life Go to subcategory:
Author Content
Tomlapaz
  • From:USA

Date Posted:30-04-2018 12:56:24

Below is a good piece on Acts 2:42, on what makes for a health church.  In fact, the church growth was explosive in the book of Acts.

04/09/18  Grace Mail

"All the believers devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching, and to fellowship, and to sharing in meals (including the Lord's Supper), and to prayer" (Acts 2:42).

In Acts 2:42, we read that was the priority of the early church: Bible study, fellowship, the breaking of bread and prayer.

One of our sister churches that we actually helped to start are meeting in a school, where they have to set up and tear down every Sunday morning. They have to pack everything in a trailer. As I was thinking about that, I was thinking of how many things they don't have. You think, "Doesn't a church have to have certain kinds of buildings?" "Don't they have to have certain types of furnishings?" "Don't you need a cross somewhere?" "Don't you need a steeple someplace?" "Don't you need a gymnasium and a golf course, and a pool?"

I think of what the early church didn't have and it was so successful! The early church didn't have any of that stuff. It didn't even have the stuff we have. And yet, people were getting saved, and it was more successful in the first century than the church has ever been since.

The Gospel went out into the entire world, and all they had was Bible study, fellowship, the breaking of bread and prayer.

So, I think that everything that a church does ought to center around one of those four things. We ought to be able to trace everything we do at Calvary back to the fact that it's either Bible study, it's a fellowship opportunity, it's the breaking of bread (which I believe speaks of the Lord's Supper prominent in services and available to people), and/or prayer. Everything should come back to that. Those are the priorities. If you can get to other things; they're not wrong, but these are the things a church ought to focus on.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #211
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:16-06-2018 06:39:55

Again, we are both just going in circles - was going to let you have the last word, but let me ask this:

If by 'bible study' someone means the same thing as 'apostles' teaching' - then there is no issue, yes?

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #212
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:16-06-2018 06:43:14

Reply to Tomlapaz

Again, we are both just going in circles - was going to let you have the last word, but let me ask this:

If by 'bible study' someone means the same thing as 'apostles' teaching' - then there is no issue, yes?


THEY are NOT the SAME, and YOU have been in error here, AND do damage to those who think you actually know something.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #213
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:16-06-2018 07:05:28

Here is a problem you have that I have noticed in several threads (theology and political).   And frankly, all of us seem prone to it - but most of us do not seem to recognize it.

When someone posts something - you seem you can be careless how you read it.   I saw that in the very beginning on a discussion on Trump when you mistook what Skw and I were debating.

Anyway, You assume he/she (the poster) means what you would mean by it, or you simply assume what they are trying to convey.

Add to that with what seems to be a bit of legalism, a certain lack of grace, and you come across as combative.    Consistently, not just a matter of slipping up or such.


Now, maybe I am wrong, maybe you will think I am wrong - but I think there is an easy way to demonstrate this.  What would YOU say is your one fault with seeking to communicate to others?   Or one weakness?

Or would you say you have none?

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #214
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:16-06-2018 07:09:37

Reply to Tomlapaz

Here is a problem you have that I have noticed in several threads (theology and political).   And frankly, all of us seem prone to it - but most of us do not seem to recognize it.

When someone posts something - you seem you can be careless how you read it.   I saw that in the very beginning on a discussion on Trump when you mistook what Skw and I were debating.

Anyway, You assume he/she (the poster) means what you would mean by it, or you simply assume what they are trying to convey.

Add to that with what seems to be a bit of legalism, a certain lack of grace, and you come across as combative.    Consistently, not just a matter of slipping up or such.


Now, maybe I am wrong, maybe you will think I am wrong - but I think there is an easy way to demonstrate this.  What would YOU say is your one fault with seeking to communicate to others?   Or one weakness?

Or would you say you have none?


YOU are shifting away from focusing on your error AGAIN. YOU posted the error equating APOSTLES TEACHING with BIBLE STUDY and for some reason cannot admit your error.

YOU can show NO backup for your error EITHER. YOU are the dishonest one and continue in that dishonesty . the LORD continually sees that and yet YOU continue as if none can see.

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #215
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:16-06-2018 07:38:00

Honestly, it sounds like you are lacking some humility.  Time will tell.

Well, as noted, you can have the last word - we are just then going in circles.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #216
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:16-06-2018 09:10:40

The main need for any religion is a lot of sheep-like constituents.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #217
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:17-06-2018 11:04:46

Reply to Tomlapaz

Honestly, it sounds like you are lacking some humility.  Time will tell.

Well, as noted, you can have the last word - we are just then going in circles.


YOU are lacking in HONESTY, a REQUISITE for being a professed Christian.

YOU are shifting away from focusing on your error AGAIN. YOU are contradicted by the NT.

YOU posted the error equating APOSTLES TEACHING with BIBLE STUDY and for some reason cannot admit your error.

YOU can show NO backup for your error EITHER. YOU are the dishonest one and continue in that dishonesty . the LORD continually sees that and yet YOU continue as if none can see.


HOW DO YOU RECONCILE YOUR DISHONESTY TO GOD?

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #218
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:17-06-2018 11:05:34

Reply to Yobbo

The main need for any religion is a lot of sheep-like constituents.

This is a conclusion formed by those who aren't perceptive, such as YOURSELF.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #219
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:17-06-2018 02:02:52

 Tomaplaz is a VERY DISHONEST person masquerading as a Christian when his actions and words run contrary to that of being one. INSTEAD of being honest with posters and HIMSELF, and God, Tomplaz continues to use MORE effort to COVER a glaring error in his post than to align with his professed values and honestly, in the face of evidence, just admit and correct his error and thinking.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #220
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:17-06-2018 06:20:53

Reply to wale63

 Tomaplaz is a VERY DISHONEST person masquerading as a Christian when his actions and words run contrary to that of being one. INSTEAD of being honest with posters and HIMSELF, and God, Tomplaz continues to use MORE effort to COVER a glaring error in his post than to align with his professed values and honestly, in the face of evidence, just admit and correct his error and thinking.

Pot and kettle comes to mind.

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #221
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:18-06-2018 12:11:43

Reply to Yobbo

Reply to wale63

 Tomaplaz is a VERY DISHONEST person masquerading as a Christian when his actions and words run contrary to that of being one. INSTEAD of being honest with posters and HIMSELF, and God, Tomplaz continues to use MORE effort to COVER a glaring error in his post than to align with his professed values and honestly, in the face of evidence, just admit and correct his error and thinking.

Pot and kettle comes to mind.


You WOULD say so because you are just simply STUPID!!
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #222
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:19-06-2018 12:57:03

It is your choice whether you let him get under your skin.   It is not easy, but it may be helpful to ask - how would Jesus want us to respond.


Since I am in here - I did not push it, but scripture is clear that the Bereans were studying the scriptures to see if what Paul had to say was true.   It is pretty clear there.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #223
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:19-06-2018 05:44:06

Reply to Tomlapaz

It is your choice whether you let him get under your skin.   It is not easy, but it may be helpful to ask - how would Jesus want us to respond.


Since I am in here - I did not push it, but scripture is clear that the Bereans were studying the scriptures to see if what Paul had to say was true.   It is pretty clear there.


1- Jesus would and WILL call you on your continual dishonesty

2- the wording that they 'studied' the scriptures to see if Paul was telling the TRUTH is NOT BIBLE STUDY. They SEARCHED the scriptures for reference. THAT is NOT BIBLE STUDY. YOUR continual dishonesty on this will be called out as well as you portraying yourself as a Christian when your actions are contrary.

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #224
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:19-06-2018 09:54:19

See - read your last post.   You have a description of 'bible study' that you are insisting other folk also hold.   Not reasonable - and to hold onto that is not honest after having it pointed out several times - so beware.   You judged this pastor's devotional without looking further into what he was seeking to say.

And frankly - that is something you need to work on in general.  You are not alone in that - but as a Christian, we should strive to do better in that area.


BTW - the Bereans studied to see if what Paul was saying was true.  They were not simply looking up references.   It begins with that - but scripture can take more thought that simply looking up a verse here and there to measure what is being taught.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #225
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:20-06-2018 12:49:52

Reply to Tomlapaz

See - read your last post.   You have a description of 'bible study' that you are insisting other folk also hold.   Not reasonable - and to hold onto that is not honest after having it pointed out several times - so beware.   You judged this pastor's devotional without looking further into what he was seeking to say.

And frankly - that is something you need to work on in general.  You are not alone in that - but as a Christian, we should strive to do better in that area.


BTW - the Bereans studied to see if what Paul was saying was true.  They were not simply looking up references.   It begins with that - but scripture can take more thought that simply looking up a verse here and there to measure what is being taught.


YOU are pushing a flat out FALSE impression and YOU substituted the words BIBLE STUDY for 'Apostles teaching' which was erroneous and now you are more interested in covering the false information than making the correction. The Bereans was one incident and they were not the entirety of the Early Christian Community so you erred on numerous fronts and remain dishonest, something YOU should work on IF you really are a Christian.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #226
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 01:05:39

So, isolated incident or not - you do agree that the Bereans studied scripture.
Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #227
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 01:27:11

Reply to Tomlapaz

So, isolated incident or not - you do agree that the Bereans studied scripture.

NO. They referenced it like looking in a dictionary ONLY to see if what Paul was saying was TRUE. referencing is NOT studying AND your continued attempts to justify your error is sad.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #228
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 01:34:14

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

So, isolated incident or not - you do agree that the Bereans studied scripture.

NO. They referenced it like looking in a dictionary ONLY to see if what Paul was saying was TRUE. referencing is NOT studying AND your continued attempts to justify your error is sad.


No, they did not simply just reference it like a dictionary - it is not like Paul was just repeating OT scripture.  Second - it makes as if no studying of the Bible is needed at all.  Do you think that is true?

Do you think folk simply read (reference) the NT even, and bingo, they understand it?  

I realize you just don't see the problem here, but frankly, there is nothing really to continue on here till you do.   It is really coming down to how you and I use the word 'study'.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #229
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 01:42:07

By the way - you are the first person in 40 years that I have heard try to argue that the Bereans were not studying Scripture.

Does not automatically mean you are wrong and all these other folk are right - but at the very least, it does mean you have quite the uphill battle here to make your case.   You should at least be able to admit that.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #230
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 01:47:40

Reply to Tomlapaz

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

So, isolated incident or not - you do agree that the Bereans studied scripture.

NO. They referenced it like looking in a dictionary ONLY to see if what Paul was saying was TRUE. referencing is NOT studying AND your continued attempts to justify your error is sad.


No, they did not simply just reference it like a dictionary - it is not like Paul was just repeating OT scripture.  Second - it makes as if no studying of the Bible is needed at all.  Do you think that is true?

Do you think folk simply read (reference) the NT even, and bingo, they understand it?  

I realize you just don't see the problem here, but frankly, there is nothing really to continue on here till you do.   It is really coming down to how you and I use the word 'study'.


THAT is the ERROR on your part, AMONG MANY, that you are still trying to cover for.

HERE is what The NT tells us:

1 Corinthians 1:21-24  (GNT)

21 For God in his wisdom made it impossible for people to know him by means of their own wisdom. Instead, by means of the so-called “foolish” message we preach, God decided to save those who believe. 22 Jews want miracles for proof, and Greeks look for wisdom. 23 As for us, we proclaim the crucified Christ, a message that is offensive to the Jews and nonsense to the Gentiles; 24 but for those whom God has called, both Jews and Gentiles, this message is Christ, who is the power of God and the wisdom of God.


Galatians 1:11-12  (KJV)

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #231
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 01:58:15

See, you posted scripture - yet it is not at all obvious to me that it supports your position that you are trying to make.

So I cannot simply reference those scriptures and go 'oh yes!'.  I would have to study them to see if what you are saying is true.


Same as the Bereans did with Paul's teaching.   

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #232
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 02:01:39

Reply to Tomlapaz

See, you posted scripture - yet it is not at all obvious to me that it supports your position that you are trying to make.

So I cannot simply reference those scriptures and go 'oh yes!'.  I would have to study them to see if what you are saying is true.


Same as the Bereans did with Paul's teaching.   


YOU don't have to STUDY if you know that ANY of the words are the WORD of GOD

AND

YOU have NOT established your ORIGINAL position that the EARLY Christians engaged in BIBLE STUDY and you are STILL obfuscating here, not exactly the behavior of a GENUINE Christian.

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #233
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 02:04:12

 Colossians 1:8-9  (GNT)

He has told us of the love that the Spirit has given you.

For this reason we have always prayed for you, ever since we heard about you. We ask God to fill you with the knowledge of his will, with all the wisdom and understanding that his Spirit gives.

Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #234
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 04:03:14

 

 
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "[i]If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn.,[/i]" -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #235
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 05:04:14

Reply to Bogus0Pomp

 

 


TRANSLATION

" I boguspumped am watching a conversation WAY above my head, which is a position I am used to, having things over my head-LOL" -boguspumped

Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #236
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 05:25:01

There isn't anything in this, now 8 page long, cat fight between you and Tom, that is anywhere near being above my head, let alone "WAY above" my head.

LOL

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "[i]If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn.,[/i]" -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #237
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 08:13:49

Reply to Bogus0Pomp

There isn't anything in this, now 8 page long, cat fight between you and Tom, that is anywhere near being above my head, let alone "WAY above" my head.

LOL


I know because you probably have OTHER things waving over your head.LOL
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #238
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 11:15:13

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

See, you posted scripture - yet it is not at all obvious to me that it supports your position that you are trying to make.

So I cannot simply reference those scriptures and go 'oh yes!'.  I would have to study them to see if what you are saying is true.


Same as the Bereans did with Paul's teaching.   


YOU don't have to STUDY if you know that ANY of the words are the WORD of GOD

AND

YOU have NOT established your ORIGINAL position that the EARLY Christians engaged in BIBLE STUDY and you are STILL obfuscating here, not exactly the behavior of a GENUINE Christian.


You do have to study specifically because it is the Word of God.   For example - folk take verses out of context all the time - it happens with other literature, but given the importance of the Word of God, one should seek to be less guilty of doing that, yes?
Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #239
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:21-06-2018 11:22:53

Reply to wale63

There isn't anything in this, now 8 page long, cat fight between you and Tom, that is anywhere near being above my head, let alone "WAY above" my head.

LOL

I know because you probably have OTHER things waving over your head.LOL

Dare I ask what it is that your tiny little mind thinks is waving over my head?

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "[i]If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn.,[/i]" -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #240
  • From:USA

Re:Four essentials for a healthy church

Date Posted:22-06-2018 06:51:34

Reply to Tomlapaz

Reply to wale63

Reply to Tomlapaz

See, you posted scripture - yet it is not at all obvious to me that it supports your position that you are trying to make.

So I cannot simply reference those scriptures and go 'oh yes!'.  I would have to study them to see if what you are saying is true.


Same as the Bereans did with Paul's teaching.   


YOU don't have to STUDY if you know that ANY of the words are the WORD of GOD

AND

YOU have NOT established your ORIGINAL position that the EARLY Christians engaged in BIBLE STUDY and you are STILL obfuscating here, not exactly the behavior of a GENUINE Christian.


You do have to study specifically because it is the Word of God.   For example - folk take verses out of context all the time - it happens with other literature, but given the importance of the Word of God, one should seek to be less guilty of doing that, yes?


YOUR ORIGINAL PREMISE was that the Early Christians engaged in BIBLE STUDY and they DID NOT.

YOU are in error, in contradiction to the New Testament and  chronology. You continually obfuscate to COVER for your error and are dishonest, NOT exactly Christian behavior.

Copyright © 2000-2018 Aimoo Free Forum All rights reserved.