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Yekyua
  • From:USA

Date Posted:01-12-2018 03:03:08Copy HTML

Excerpted from the Atlantic, from article about a controversy that's received widespread attention:


Last month, during a conference for scholars who study international affairs, Simona Sharoni, a professor of women's and gender studies at Merrimack College, asked a crowded hotel elevator what floor everyone needed. Richard Ned Lebow, a professor of political theory at King’s College London, replied, “Ladies’ lingerie” (or, as Sharoni remembers it, “Women’s lingerie.”) Several people laughed. Was that sexual harassment?


( As background for the few in here who aren't codgers, elevators in stores, offices, apartment buildings were once attended by full-time, uniformed operators.  Passengers would provide a floor number (or desired department, in a store), operator pressed button.  Lebow stated When he was young, in the 1950s, he said, it was a "standard gag line" to ask the elevator operator for the hardware or lingerie floor as though one were in a department store


Sharoni and her colleague were definitely not amused, but said nothing that evening.  Still upset, Sharoni reviewed International Studies Association guidelines, and decided Lebow's crack warranted filing a formal complaint to them.  Upon receipt of their notice of the complaint, Lebow emailed Sharoni, telling her he meant no disrespect to women, that had championed women's rights and causes throughout his career.  He further said he believed his joke, antiquated and lame though it may have been, did not remotely rise to level of harassment, and that he thought a tempest about it hurt more than helped women's cause.  He also asked why she didn't just contact him personally, as guidelines also suggested as first line of action, rather than going straight to Association. 

This only served to escalate matters.  Sharoni responded by complaining to ISA Lebow was dismissive, and had tried to intimidate her.  


The ACS then notified Lebow he was to submit unequivocal apology or lose his membership.  Lebow's dug his heels, much battling correspondence has ensued. Lawyers are involved. Sharoni has received hate mail.  And there we stand.  Preponderance of support seems to be for him, but of course, ad populem opinions do not an argument make.


Says The Chronicle of Higher Education: Now his refusal to formally apologize has touched off the latest skirmish in the #MeToo battles rocking academe. At issue is whether a comment made in jest rises to the level of a punishable offense, and what happens when a complaint some deem as trivial results in a vicious online backlash against the offended party.


The Atlantic author takes no firm stand on who was right, wrong, or in between, but does go on to fault the processes used by the ISA (and others like them), in general criticizing their clarity and ineffective procedures for dispute resolution.  


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/05/is-this-old-lingerie-joke-harmless-or-harassment/559760/

https://www.chronicle.com/article/He-Makes-a-Joke-She-Isn-t/243350


As Atlantic author also observes, this is a perfect case study for discussion, as in truth there's nothing really horrendous or earth shaking here by any measure. (LeBow's not been accused of Weinstein-like acts, is not likely to be drummed out in disgrace, likewise, Sharoni hasn't been raped or brutalized.)  Reactions? Ideas?  






O ye wha are sae guid yoursel', Sae pious and sae holy, Ye've nought to do but mark and tell Your neibours' fauts and folly! -- Robert Burns (Address to the Unco Guid)
easyrider123 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
  • From:Norway

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 03:51:38Copy HTML

Simona Sharoni is crazy. This is ridiculous and Richard Lebow seems to be the sane person in this. 

It's not even worth discussing. 

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway.
Yekyua Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 04:14:48Copy HTML

It's not even worth discussing. 

Duly noted.  Then don't!


Apparently, this gag line's been referenced in a Harry Potter book and a couple of other places.  I'd never heard of it prior to reading this story.  I could see saying "Odd request.  What do you mean?"  Or similar.  


I get the sense that some ladies, and maybe particularly true in academia, believe they ought to be offended, that some breach has occurred, and they must speak out and see that the transgression doesn't go unpunished.  


Good thing he didn't ask for "Hardware, please!"  Lol!


O ye wha are sae guid yoursel', Sae pious and sae holy, Ye've nought to do but mark and tell Your neibours' fauts and folly! -- Robert Burns (Address to the Unco Guid)
easyrider123 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
  • From:Norway

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 05:06:20Copy HTML

I'm surprised you think there is even anything to debate here. Wouldn't you agree that this Shoroni woman is out to lunch. Maybe just a brain fart?, emotional short circuit? that for some unexplainable reason she decides to run with it? It's so ridiculous it is embarrassing, and I'm sure it does embarrass most of her colleagues and peers. I mean, come on, you think there is a debate possible with this? 

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway.
easyrider123 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
  • From:Norway

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 05:10:11Copy HTML

I woud hope that most women in academia would never be so childishly petty about such an innocuous utterance. The laundry list of character defects she displays with this nonsense puts a black eye on all women in academia if anything.  lol

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway.
Yekyua Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 05:25:54Copy HTML

You might want to read the OP again.  Whether you, or I think there's "something to debate" doesn't really bear on the issues suggested, which have to do with "PC," which have to do with some feminist schools of thought, which have to do with what we are "permitted" to say in public and what we are not.  The fact is, in many social environments these kinds of encounters are seriously consequential for those embroiled in them, and they happen all the time.  


Do I think she overreacted?  Absolutely.  The question is, why was her complaint given (strong) support from the ISA?  And to what degree does that posture represent other environments (not just academia).  How has this cultural climate developed?  What can be done to mitigate it (if mitigation is what you believe is needed).  And so forth.  

O ye wha are sae guid yoursel', Sae pious and sae holy, Ye've nought to do but mark and tell Your neibours' fauts and folly! -- Robert Burns (Address to the Unco Guid)
Yekyua Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 05:36:59Copy HTML

This is how she saw it:  First, she's from Romania, then lived in Israel, and was unfamiliar with the lightheartedness, intended humor of his response. She's a 21st century lady, acutely attuned to possible harassment.  She, and younger female scholar were in crowded elevator, the only women.  She asks for floor numbers to press, from somewhere she hears "Ladies lingerie!," followed by laughter from males.  She has zero idea of what on earth that might mean, except women's underwear was in there, then laughing.  Talk about pressing buttons.  


This is only an instance of "men from Mars, women from Venus" in my estimation.


That perspective was just for you to think about, Easyrider.  I don't think she handled it skillfully, but having initiated the process, was not about the back down.  


And obviously, if I hadn't thought it was a worthwhile talking point, I wouldn't have posted it.  You -- again -- need not participate.  


O ye wha are sae guid yoursel', Sae pious and sae holy, Ye've nought to do but mark and tell Your neibours' fauts and folly! -- Robert Burns (Address to the Unco Guid)
dunjuz_not Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 05:47:52Copy HTML

I guess "Anyone going down?" wouldn't fly either?

We're all prisoners of conscious.~
dunjuz_not Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 05:57:31Copy HTML

Seriously, Judge Judy needs to explain the concept of lighten up to everybody involved and then maybe explain to the accused that screaming 'pussy' in a crowded elevator might cause a stampede. 

We're all prisoners of conscious.~
Yekyua Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 05:59:20Copy HTML

I guess "Anyone going down?" wouldn't fly either?


Lol!  We could riff on this a while. :-)


skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 09:48:43Copy HTML

She and the Association handled it terribly. It may have been a lame joke that only a few older people understood, but it wasn’t terribly offensive to the level of harassment such that filing a complaint and having him removed would be warranted.
_QZ_ Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 01:28:37Copy HTML

I'm old...but not that old...and I'm very familiar with the joke. Regardless, I'm thankful I have better things to do with my energy than to get offended over something this trite. It would never even occur to me I should be upset, let alone actually be upset, even if I didn't get the joke. I would have figured out by the fact people were laughing that it was a joke...I'd ignore it and just let him either push his own floor or wait til he requested it. Good lord. It doesn't bode well that people can't just address a conflict over words like adults, which means they first have to be mature enough to know when words even merit time or attention. Women like this reinforce the very stereotypes they think they are fighting. There is a guy I follow on Twitter, and on days when folks magnify and fight over twaddle (which is almost every day) he tweets: This is the stupidest day of the year. So far.
nateonthenet Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 07:29:27Copy HTML

I often think we have gone too far on PC stuff. And, at the same time, I often hear some remark that I feel is totally out of line and yet other people say I am wrong. We know there is no hard line drawn in the sand. I toss out lines like this all the time. Not to strangers, but to my friends wives. 95% of the time they get a laugh. Sometimes they get a retort which is even better. For years I have flirted on these sites with Yek. I did so earlier today. For years she ignores me. I suppose if she ever tells me to give it a rest I would say something like "Hey, I've been turned down by better women than you." No, that would be too harsh and not funny. I would be stumped for a while. Anyway, my point is men, in their ever present desire to gain the affections of a woman will often go too far. Should women take offense? I don't think so. I think women are 'adults too' and can make an adult response directly to the person. I think this crap demeans male/female flirtations. I have been shot down many times. Those women were almost never demeaning even if I was temporarily crestfallen. So, my take is this lady acted inappropriately. Yek, do you find this response acceptable? Do we have any chance for an internet romance? Be gentle
Yekyua Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 08:03:51Copy HTML

Women like this reinforce the very stereotypes they think they are fighting.


Yes.  Lebow, alluded to this in his initial email to Sharoni - for which she complained again that he was "threatening and offensive" in tone.


It would never even occur to me I should be upset, 


QZ, I found it telling that her younger colleague (as Sharoni reported) asked whether Lebow's joke was a breach of rules, whether it was appropriate.  What her question says to me is that climate has reached such hypersensitive extremes that PERSONAL affront or distress need not be experienced.  Iow, even if not genuinely bothered, a male (or plug in another so-called privileged group) "breaking the rules" must be censured.  


As mentioned earlier, in this case Lebow is in professional terms pretty much bullet proof.  But this may not so for others who become caught up in such messes.


I asked earlier how this climate might be changed, and frankly have no answers other than to resist (as Lebow is doing) capitulating to unwarranted, ridiculous charges.  

O ye wha are sae guid yoursel', Sae pious and sae holy, Ye've nought to do but mark and tell Your neibours' fauts and folly! -- Robert Burns (Address to the Unco Guid)
Yekyua Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #14
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:01-12-2018 08:07:36Copy HTML

She and the Association handled it terribly.  It may have been a lame joke that only a few older people understood, but it wasn’t terribly offensive to the level of harassment such that filing a complaint and having him removed would be warranted.


I fault the Association more than Sharoni, subjectively.  Hard to know how much personal egos and intransigence is going on vs fear of activist backlash.  

easyrider123 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #15
  • From:Norway

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 02:37:36Copy HTML

QZ is 100% correct, and this statement really sums it up................."Women like this reinforce the very stereotypes they think they are fighting."


That yekua thought it needed further discussion paints it's own picture.  lol

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway.
Yekyua Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 03:11:07Copy HTML

Jeez, Nate - didn't see your post, sorry.  No, I don't think Sharoni handled it as she ought to have.  At most, if she took umbrage, she should have talked to him personally.  I have the feeling had that dialogue taken place, this entire mess would have been avoided.  He seemed, in his tone, in no way arrogant, dismissive or 'threatening' as Sharoni alleged - though that he became upset and defended himself as matters proceeded is understandable.


And your teasing persona of lovelorn cybersuitor are perfectly fine with me, Nate - I realize it's banter, you're not in earnest.  A haughty silence, however, is most appropriate.  Gotta maintain MY rep, you know.  Lol.


Easyrider, what's your beef and why the snipe?  Once again:  you don't want to discuss it, simply don't.  Others will make up their own minds, apparently to your chagrin.  The issue was considered noteworthy enough to spark lengthy coverages by several major publications - whether you believe it "needed discussion" or not doesn't bear on anything but your desire to express spite.  


O ye wha are sae guid yoursel', Sae pious and sae holy, Ye've nought to do but mark and tell Your neibours' fauts and folly! -- Robert Burns (Address to the Unco Guid)
easyrider123 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #17
  • From:Norway

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 03:29:58Copy HTML

Easyrider, what's your beef and why the snipe?  Why the snipe? asks the sniper?  lol Once again:  you don't want to discuss it, simply don't.  I'm not discussing it, I'm deriding this inane topic. Others will make up their own minds, apparently to your chagrin.  Chagrin? Hardly, the only emotion this thread initiates is what ever emotion goes with.."are you kidding me?" with eys rolling. lol     The issue was considered noteworthy enough to spark lengthy coverages by several major publications - whether you believe it "needed discussion" or not doesn't bear on anything but your desire to express spite.  The fact that this nonsense made it past the elevator is an indicator of how befuddled, paranoid and stupid society is behaving. That some insane moron decided to print it does not in any way make it worthy of note. You can spin it all you like, but this is ridiculous, there is no rational expalnation that will ever justify the actions that ensued after these people got off the elevator. Chagrin, ha, I laugh at them and you for imagining that there may  be some sane reasoning involved.


Maybe this chick is related to wales, or you yekua?  lolol


Oooops, another snipe slipped out. You bring them out in me I guess.

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway.
Yekyua Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #18
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 03:48:05Copy HTML

Sputter sputter.  Still more "not-discussing" ?  :-)

 

O ye wha are sae guid yoursel', Sae pious and sae holy, Ye've nought to do but mark and tell Your neibours' fauts and folly! -- Robert Burns (Address to the Unco Guid)
easyrider123 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #19
  • From:Norway

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 04:42:42Copy HTML

lol.............OK, OK.............here's something with a little more substance, and relative in a way


THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway.
Yekyua Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #20
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 05:02:32Copy HTML

You are harassing, and deliberately so.  What topics members choose to discuss, or initiate for discussion is not your call.  There are 30 slots on the 1st page, you are free to occupy as many as you like with subjects of your choice.  With a history of having lobbed, without commentary, many hundreds if not thousands of threads consisting only of c&ps, videos over time, it's ironic you choose to zero in on this thread, launched by someone who launches one maybe 2 or 3 times a year (and that's in the productive years!).  That your swooping in to disrupt and snipe is product of personal animus is obvious (aka 'personal attack'). If you want to talk about environmental matters, Israel, Capitalist villainy, Sanders, and other issues that concern you you're free to start as many threads as you like.  


Socio-cultural trends such as the ridiculous extremes to which interpretation of what constitutes sexual misconduct in the workplace (exemplified in this case) have been taken, and supported institutionally ARE highly significant and impact a great many folks in their daily lives. You seem stuck on this particular instance not grasping that it has broader implications. Relevance shouldn't have to be justified to anyone not living in a cave, but I'll make the attempt one more time.  



O ye wha are sae guid yoursel', Sae pious and sae holy, Ye've nought to do but mark and tell Your neibours' fauts and folly! -- Robert Burns (Address to the Unco Guid)
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #21
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 12:11:11Copy HTML

I surf through a lot of old television during my 2am bouts with insomnia and it is amazing to see how our norms of behavior have migrated. Someone could do a thesis using only examples of change through television dialogue...and not just Mad Men. Oddly, 2-5 am is almost the only time I ever watch television except for sports. I wonder how that skews my view of the world. In any event I’ve got to get up and go pick up my Total Gym, Male enhancement pills and oxyclean miracle kitchen treatment up at the PO Box.
_QZ_ Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #22
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 01:59:54Copy HTML


That yekua thought it needed further discussion paints it's own picture.  lol




Oh dear.  It  looks like Nate isn't the only one with unrequired love for Yek.



Easy, you are embarrassing yourself...this is just one example within a changing landscape of hypersensitize grievances.  People can now lose their jobs for expressing trivialities.  If an incident makes it to social media and it goes viral, the "offender" can have their lives destroyed as they are marked by intersectionality warriors as too vile to be employable.  My SIL just relayed an upsetting incident where coworkers were chatting about movies and someone else reported that one had made an offensive comment about the other.  Both were called before management and in the end it was dismissed as nonsense because it was.  Focus in on this Easy...the one that was supposedly "the victim" was so shook they had to go home for the day.   They were sickened that other people thought they'd be offended and/or couldn't speak for themselves should that ever be the case.   The ramifications of making people afraid of superfical chatting or silly quips is worth our concern and discussion.  


The "grievance industry" as it is sometimes called is infantilizing the larger culture.  It also distracts us from REAL victims of "isms" who actually deserve redress.



Yek:  I asked earlier how this climate might be changed, and frankly have no answers other than to resist (as Lebow is doing) capitulating to unwarranted, ridiculous charges.  


I don't know how to change it, Yek.  I have asked my grown kids/spouses what their work places are like in regard to these issues and it is mixed bag of responses.  Some of their employers are more inclined to use company time to micromanage particulars and some aren't.  They have said their coworkers/friends pretty much agree it is far too restrictive, and company standards are often ignored out of ear shot of management or in some case ignored by management as well.  


It also seeps into our non-work life. [Believe it or not] I'm very socially adept in real life in that I do not cause offense or drama.  Where I live is very diverse, and as it happens so is my extended family.  We are multi racial, multi ethnic, and LGB..no T...Q represented.   Yet I find myself less and less able to speak freely even on superficialities as the touchiness increases.   I have two nephews, one gay and one straight, and we look forward to having robust discussions on our shared interests which we have been having together since they were teens.   WE are fine...but OTHERS constantly try to tell us what we can or can't talk about to each other.  My one nephew and I were off to the side one evening recently, quietly discussing Seth Rogan's podcasts and how the word "fuck" has gone from extremely offensive to normative, and his dad almost had a heart attack.  He was so afraid that I would be offended at his son's perspective (with which I agreed actually) that his interference to shush him was annoying AF... As. Fuck. ...to both of us.  

   


Donning my granny hat, I will say that it is lost art to both have thicker skin as well as to know how to put someone in their place when they are actually rude, and we are not better for the loss.  



_QZ_ Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #23
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 02:14:23Copy HTML

I surf through a lot of old television during my 2am bouts with insomnia and it is amazing to see how our norms of behavior have migrated. Someone could do a thesis using only examples of change through television dialogue...and not just Mad Men. Oddly, 2-5 am is almost the only time I ever watch television except for sports.  I wonder how that skews my view of the world.  In any event I’ve got to get up and go pick up my Total Gym, Male enhancement pills and oxyclean miracle kitchen treatment up at the PO Box.




Lol.   I've read articles...and observed it myself as I've watched reruns on Netflix...on how very popular shows like Friends could not be made today.   Many comedians have spoken up about the negative impact of PCism, some no longer willing to perform at college venues.  This is so unfortunate because comedy is a hugely important and effective tool to address social problems and/or bridge differences.  

easyrider123 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #24
  • From:Norway

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 05:01:51Copy HTML

Botttom line..............this Sharoni woman's nonsense needs to be ignored and rejected. To validate it with a discussion only serves to perpetuate this type of asanine behavior. All of this crazy hyper sensitive irrational behavior needs to be dismissed, thrown under the bus, vilified, ignored.........not given an iota of attention. Then, and only then will people perhaps get a little more sane in this.

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway.
skrumpie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #25
  • From:Argentina

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 05:57:48Copy HTML

Botttom line..............this Sharoni woman's nonsense needs to be ignored and rejected. To validate it with a discussion only serves to perpetuate this type of asanine behavior. All of this crazy hyper sensitive irrational behavior needs to be dismissed, thrown under the bus, vilified, ignored.........not given an iota of attention. Then, and only then will people perhaps get a little more sane in this.


You don't actually think this board, tiny as it is, validates anything, do you?



Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #26
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 07:12:06Copy HTML

Skrumpie's motto: JGS - Just Gotta Squawk

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
_QZ_ Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #27
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 07:14:47Copy HTML

You can ignore it if you wish Easy...which as Yek pointed out you aren’t actually  doing by posting  on this thread....but that doesn’t mean others can or should. 

_QZ_ Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #28
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 07:39:25Copy HTML

Skrumpie's motto: JGS - Just Gotta Squawk



Skrump's comment pertains to the discussion, specifically addressing criticism of the merits of even discussing the OP.  Her point is valid in that this board's reach is tiny so in terms of giving this incident legs, that is unlikely.  In the main, this small forum still provides us opportunity to speak our mind and perhaps get some push back or insight, which can be beneficial in and of itself, depending on the contributors.    


Your comment is a specious personal attack.  Perhaps you have some actual thoughts on either the incident or the larger culture to contribute?  For example, where do you think the line is from your perspective as a gay man?  How do you personally feel about jokes which may have an association with orientation but aren't intended to offend?   Or those which may convey mild flirtation not necessarily meant to be taken seriously?  Do straight people engaging you and your boyfriend with light humor make you feel more or less comfortable, and how would you handle a comment you didn't find funny?  

nateonthenet Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #29
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 09:21:12Copy HTML

I surf through a lot of old television during my 2am bouts with insomnia and it is amazing to see how our norms of behavior have migrated. Someone could do a thesis using only examples of change through television dialogue...and not just Mad Men. Oddly, 2-5 am is almost the only time I ever watch television except for sports.  I wonder how that skews my view of the world.  In any event I’ve got to get up and go pick up my Total Gym, Male enhancement pills and oxyclean miracle kitchen treatment up at the PO Box.


Hah! I have the same problem.  So, I assume you hate "My Pillow" ads as much as I do.  Last fall I bought a super duper knife sharpener in the middle of the night to plave in my buddies fishing package.  He asked what the heck I did that for.  I said that's what happens when you watch tv in the middle of the night.


Anyway, yes.  There is an easy masters thesis there.

mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #30
  • From:USA

Re:Harmless Joke or Harassment? Case Study

Date Posted:02-12-2018 10:13:20Copy HTML

  Her point is valid in that this board's reach is tiny so in terms of giving this incident legs, that is unlikely.


That is true. But the same can be said of office water coolers, yet, honestly, there, here and other similar venues are where a lot of the ultimate social mores originate from...people talking about, seeing how they feel, how others feel and then spreading the meme elsewhere. Skrumpie's 'comment' if apropos in this instance, is apropos on every single thread we talk about.


In this case, I'm glad to see that there is a general consensus that this woman was out of hand. I can see someone being in doubt. But a little investigation on her own could easily have established that the comment wasn't intended to be offensive. I hope the guy doesn't back down one whit.


What I find MOST clueless about her is that she apparently has absolutely no clue as to how most rational folks are going to view this incident.

~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
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