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alaskaone
  • From:USA

Date Posted:14-09-2017 05:02:46Copy HTML

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vWuwYy1Pp0c" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="355" width="425"></iframe>
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:24-09-2017 08:46:19Copy HTML

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UmUdcWk6Vfw" allowfullscreen="" width="425" height="355" frameborder="0"></iframe>

"Price’s Law says that 50% of work at a company is done by a small number of people.  Specifically, it says that 50% of work is done by the square root of the number of employees.

There’s no need to break out the middle school math book to understand this.  If a company has ten employees, three of them will do 50% of the work and the other seven will do the rest.

If there are 100 employees, only 10 will account for 50% of the work.  And if there are 10,000, only 100 will do half.  That leaves 9,900 people doing the rest."

https://www.am1st.com/another-reason-companies-fail/

This also pertains to government.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:20-01-2018 08:07:27Copy HTML

It's difficult to talk with the honorable opposition.  In this video, Dr. Peterson shows how to do it successfully.

<iframe width="425" height="355" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aMcjxSThD54" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:20-01-2018 08:25:32Copy HTML

Because Jordan is a deep dive...

<iframe width="425" height="355" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_RzUYbmb-MM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:21-01-2018 05:39:19Copy HTML

There are groups on Face Book that one can join - where they have discussions.  One I joined recently is on Jordan Peterson.

With the hope of reading some interesting discussions regarding his stuff.    Time has been the limitation, unfortunately.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:21-01-2018 01:23:51Copy HTML

 Nice!  Thanks for the heads up!
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:25-01-2018 10:23:24Copy HTML

Karen Straughan has some things to say about the Channel 4 interview.

<iframe width="425" height="355" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_UwK-my_Kmw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:02-02-2018 08:36:25Copy HTML

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ofmuCXRMoSA" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="355" width="425"></iframe>
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:17-06-2018 06:29:07Copy HTML

https://www.chicksonright.com/2018/06/16/an-extraordinary-thing-happened-at-jordan-petersons-indianapolis-performance/

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
txtiki Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:17-06-2018 07:31:08Copy HTML

 Interesting.

Not what I've observed, though-- as someone who studied sociology and psychology undergrad, I was a fairly keen observer of our educational system.

As a woman and mother of two daughters, I didn't see them getting the validation that he claims young men are so hungry for--well, other than from me. For myself, growing up, I didn't get it from anyone other than from within myself.

At school, I observed a double standard required of girls from an early age. Girls were punished for classroom behavior that didn't even merit a raised eyebrow if a boy did it. I remember questioning my eldest's second grade teacher about this-- that why did my daughter get a demerit for behavior if the boys didn't...she stuttered, stammered and couldn't really explain why girls were expected to shut up, be quiet and follow all the rules without question yet the boys were, in many ways, rewarded for the same behavior girls were punished for. Believe me, females get the message from an early age to not be aggressive-- that's bitchy behavior in a female, confidence in a male.

Then they get to junior high... to encourage the boys to read, the vast majority of literature is male-centered. The stories are about men, written by men ( heck, even more so than when I went to school)-- seems boys have to be encouraged to read and well, learning about things from a female point of view or from a different culture or perspective just won't do... No Bronte, no Austen, no stories written by women or with a female protagonist aside from the Scarlet Letter, and well, she committed adultery and had to wear that A, you know, while the guy got off scot-free.

Women work harder and do better in college-- yet don't get hired in the same numbers at the top positions even though their credentials are superior. How does he explain this? Seems he isn't even willing to entertain the idea that in some professions where men are doing the hiring, they are much more reluctant to hire a woman who is smarter than they are than they are a man who is smarter. 

Female politicians are always called shrill by males who disagree with her. Hell, it wouldn't matter if she had a whiskey-soaked voice like Kathleen Turner-- she's talking, I don't like what she's saying, she's shrill.

Every heard even the whiniest voiced male politician described that way? 

So women are damned if they do -- and damned if they don't. The only way they can get the pay they deserve is to start their own company and be their own boss.



[marquee][FONT family=Comic Sans MS color=blue size=14px] "Too much of a good thing can be wonderful" ~~ Mae West [/FONT][/marquee]
natalie727 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:17-06-2018 01:57:01Copy HTML

tx, he explained it.  Women typically are agreeable and don’t assert themselves like men typically do. If you have A man and a woman who have the same qualifications and the woman only submits a resume, compared to the man who submits a resume, follows up with the application , and physically shows up to the company Wanting to talk to the person who does the hiring, and does other assertive actions. Guess what, The man will most likely get the job. Because Women, for the most part, are not assertive like men.  When he interviewed that lady, she said she had to fight her way to get where she is, and he pointed out that she had to act like a typical man (assertive) to get where she was and not like a typical woman (agreeable).
kc11989 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:17-06-2018 02:31:52Copy HTML

Female politicians are always called shrill by males who disagree with her. Hell, it wouldn't matter if she had a whiskey-soaked voice like Kathleen Turner-- she's talking, I don't like what she's saying, she's shrill.

There is nothing worse than the liberals attacks on female republicans which is fully in line with their attacks on black republicans. Just ask any woman associated with Trump.
As for an example of a shrill democrat female, listen to madonna at the women's march or judds poem, the voice isn't shrill but the content of their speech is.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. - Thomas Jefferson Molon Labe
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:17-06-2018 02:49:04Copy HTML

Reply to txtiki

Women work harder and do better in college-- yet don't get hired in the same numbers at the top positions even though their credentials are superior.
I don't think this is the case any longer but I would ask if it is true that women are not hired in the same numbers might it not be true they don't apply in the same numbers?  This is certainly the case at the 'bottom' positions...

How does he explain this? 
He did explain it in the interview with cathy newman.

Seems he isn't even willing to entertain the idea that in some professions where men are doing the hiring, they are much more reluctant to hire a woman who is smarter than they are than they are a man who is smarter. 
I don't recall that idea ever being presented to him.  I would suggest, however, that any company that fails to hire the best they can get puts itself at a disadvantage.  Unlike government, a company that puts itself at pointless disadvantage is not going to be able to compete very well.

Female politicians are always called shrill by males who disagree with her. Hell, it wouldn't matter if she had a whiskey-soaked voice like Kathleen Turner-- she's talking, I don't like what she's saying, she's shrill.
I have never heard this.  If it happens 'always' then perhaps there is some evidence somewhere?

As for men being called, 'shrill', I've never heard that.  "Whiny little bitch", is the preferred insult levied against a useless male who complains constantly and has a high pitched voice.




Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:17-06-2018 03:25:38Copy HTML

 My take on Jordan Peterson is that he is a white man's Ayn Rand, basically, he is making excuses for white men feeling aggrieved about their declining status in this nation.

This is a perfect example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BymDPZ7TyNM

Take a look at the comments. White guys, almost all of them.

What does it tell you when there is only ONE demographic responding to his comments?

It tells me that his words resound with white men, and not most of the rest of us.

I was recently unfriended by someone on FB because of taking him on over Jordan Peterson.

"Identity politics" is a big deal with these white guys.

Why do you suppose that is?

Because white guys right now feel like everyone else gets noticed and they don't.

We've seen how he attacks blacks by suggesting that all the problems have to do with "lack of fathers", which is then picked up by our friends here and used as their excuse for not addressing urban issues, "well, the problem isn't lack of economic opportunity or unequal treatment in applying for jobs, college etc, if only those black guys would be fathers to their kids everything would be perfect".

There are a LOT of white men who feel very very very alienated these days. I understand where they're coming from. But Jordan Peterson, a slug if ever there were one, is not the answer to the issues, all he is doing is justifying the alienation these guys feel.

As I've said many times, I don't necessarily believe in free speech. I don't think Mr. Peterson has anything of any value to say. All he is doing is increasing the divisions in this country, justifying the racism a lot of these white men feel, justifying their going off the rails and shooting folks up, Mr. Peterson is not healthy for this nation.

Witness who on this board swears by him and you'll get what I mean.

~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
txtiki Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #14
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:17-06-2018 03:31:02Copy HTML

Reply to natalie727

tx, he explained it.  Women typically are agreeable and don’t assert themselves like men typically do. If you have A man and a woman who have the same qualifications and the woman only submits a resume, compared to the man who submits a resume, follows up with the application , and physically shows up to the company Wanting to talk to the person who does the hiring, and does other assertive actions. Guess what, The man will most likely get the job. Because Women, for the most part, are not assertive like men.  When he interviewed that lady, she said she had to fight her way to get where she is, and he pointed out that she had to act like a typical man (assertive) to get where she was and not like a typical woman (agreeable).

Yeah, and women are agreeable because society teaches them that that is what is expected of them-- which I explained, by showing examples of the different standards of behavior expected of them.
And women who are assertive are deemed bitchy and pushy-- I know of many women in the legal profession who had to go out and form their own firms because men are more intimidated and threatened by a woman who is smarter than them than they are by a man who is.

[marquee][FONT family=Comic Sans MS color=blue size=14px] "Too much of a good thing can be wonderful" ~~ Mae West [/FONT][/marquee]
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #15
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:17-06-2018 04:00:23Copy HTML

 See, we're used to competing against other guys, and we are biologically wired to accept that another guy may be our superior, they are the silverback, we not necessarily so, and while we may resent that, and strive to make ourselves a silverback, it's something we can accept biologically and evolutionarily.

But with women it's different. It's not like we are not animals. We are. And we are going to behave and respond to a certain extent as animals. As animals, we are not meant to compete with the opposite gender, so while we may rationally attempt to accept women as our equals in the workplace, it is very hard for us to overcome the biological instinct to protect, not to compete, with the distaff gender. So that makes us uncomfortable, because our reason in conflict with our biology, and we don't identify that as the case.

I understand that it's irritating for men to behave in that fashion. But it's not based in fear or in feeling threatened. The best women bosses are those who are able to get men to work in a way that makes them feel instinctively they are protecting the woman, not competing and not subservient to her.

~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
txtiki Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:17-06-2018 04:30:35Copy HTML

Reply to mickeyrat

 My take on Jordan Peterson is that he is a white man's Ayn Rand, basically, he is making excuses for white men feeling aggrieved about their declining status in this nation.

This is a perfect example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BymDPZ7TyNM

Take a look at the comments. White guys, almost all of them.

What does it tell you when there is only ONE demographic responding to his comments?

It tells me that his words resound with white men, and not most of the rest of us.

I was recently unfriended by someone on FB because of taking him on over Jordan Peterson.

"Identity politics" is a big deal with these white guys.

Why do you suppose that is?

Because white guys right now feel like everyone else gets noticed and they don't.

We've seen how he attacks blacks by suggesting that all the problems have to do with "lack of fathers", which is then picked up by our friends here and used as their excuse for not addressing urban issues, "well, the problem isn't lack of economic opportunity or unequal treatment in applying for jobs, college etc, if only those black guys would be fathers to their kids everything would be perfect".

There are a LOT of white men who feel very very very alienated these days. I understand where they're coming from. But Jordan Peterson, a slug if ever there were one, is not the answer to the issues, all he is doing is justifying the alienation these guys feel.

As I've said many times, I don't necessarily believe in free speech. I don't think Mr. Peterson has anything of any value to say. All he is doing is increasing the divisions in this country, justifying the racism a lot of these white men feel, justifying their going off the rails and shooting folks up, Mr. Peterson is not healthy for this nation.

Witness who on this board swears by him and you'll get what I mean.


Yeah, and the white guys feel they don't get noticed because --oh my God!-- we had a black man as president, and women took to the streets when a self-proclaimed bragging sexual predator was elected, the #metoo movement, and they fear that we may be poised for a resurgence of the feminist movement.
The alienation they feel is because they fear that no longer will they be favored, preferred, and catered to, cradle to grave. You notice how none of the supporters of this guy challenge my position that women are trained by society to be less aggressive, that assertive women are viewed negatively. The same can be said for assertive minorities-- they are taught that they are threatening and scary if they stand up for themselves. Women get called emasculating and minorities get called uppity for the same behaviors praised in white men. Can you imagine the crap any woman or minority candidate for public office would get if they were as insulting and obnoxious as Trump to their opponents?? 


Minorities and women who want to be treated fairly, by and large, need to be in minority or female run businesses or start their own. As it stands, they are all fighting for the same little piece of pie allowed them. 

Alaska says if businesses didn't hire the best, they wouldn't do as well.... Maybe so, but studies show that like hires like. People do the hiring-- not the company.  They will often pick someone whose hiring will benefit them-- which is why they will hire lower hanging fruit so as not to be displaced. People hire people who are like them and make them feel comfortable. If your company is run by white men, they will have a preference for hiring white men.

And I didn't even bring up the problem attractive women face in the workplace. Women have gotten fired for being too attractive-- don't recall that happening to a man. Women will also run into men who won't hire them if they are attracted to them because they fear they will hit on them and be rejected or worse, she will fill harassment charges. 

Similarly, if they treat the minority unfairly and in a discriminatory manner, they might file a discrimination complaint. 
So they hire white men like them.


[marquee][FONT family=Comic Sans MS color=blue size=14px] "Too much of a good thing can be wonderful" ~~ Mae West [/FONT][/marquee]
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #17
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:17-06-2018 05:34:07Copy HTML

 The alienation they feel is because they fear that no longer will they be favored, preferred, and catered to, cradle to grave. You notice how none of the supporters of this guy challenge my position that women are trained by society to be less aggressive, that assertive women are viewed negatively.

Absolutely. Jordan Peterson would be doing them a lot more good if he were trying to lead them to understand that we do not live in Neanderthal days anymore, and that their loss of status is something they need to accept and work with, instead of resisting it. Understanding their own biology might enable them to see women as less a threat, they wouldn't be feeling that sort of discomfort when their reason clashes with their biology, they are trying to treat women like men when they talk about them being "bitchy" or a "screecher" at work, I can mutter "asshole" at a male boss but would feel uncomfortable doing so to a female boss, so take refuge in "oh, she must be on her period" or something like that. I want to treat her as I would treat a male boss, but it goes against the biology, so instead find some way to derogate her as a female, not as a boss.

Or would except I've had more female bosses in life than male bosses (as might be expected given my employment choices, Hayekian I'll bet has had many more male bosses because he is in an engineering environment when women did not enter that field.

And besides, we all know I'm a perfect gentleman.

~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
katie5445 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #18
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:17-06-2018 06:04:26Copy HTML

Reply to alaskaone

Reply to txtiki

Women work harder and do better in college-- yet don't get hired in the same numbers at the top positions even though their credentials are superior.
I don't think this is the case any longer but I would ask if it is true that women are not hired in the same numbers might it not be true they don't apply in the same numbers?  This is certainly the case at the 'bottom' positions...

How does he explain this? 
He did explain it in the interview with cathy newman.

Seems he isn't even willing to entertain the idea that in some professions where men are doing the hiring, they are much more reluctant to hire a woman who is smarter than they are than they are a man who is smarter. 
I don't recall that idea ever being presented to him.  I would suggest, however, that any company that fails to hire the best they can get puts itself at a disadvantage.  Unlike government, a company that puts itself at pointless disadvantage is not going to be able to compete very well.

Female politicians are always called shrill by males who disagree with her. Hell, it wouldn't matter if she had a whiskey-soaked voice like Kathleen Turner-- she's talking, I don't like what she's saying, she's shrill.
I have never heard this.  If it happens 'always' then perhaps there is some evidence somewhere?

As for men being called, 'shrill', I've never heard that.  "Whiny little bitch", is the preferred insult levied against a useless male who complains constantly and has a high pitched voice.




Women in college exceeding men is still growing. What do you think women go to college for, nab a husband, that was in my era, if they went at all. College is hard, really hard and many have to work besides taking a full load, sometimes being married with kids or an older student.That after 4-5 yrs. for an undergraduate degree and to years it takes to get a Phd or higher degrees, their job seeking is just as great or greater than men. They didn't sign up for this to do just housekeeping duties. In 2017 there were over 20 million enrolled in college, 11.5 were female, 8.9 were males, and over 8 million are over 25. Demographics in college have dramatically changed yet the percentages of women in high powered jobs, is still extremely low as well.

govols Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #19
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:17-06-2018 06:28:47Copy HTML

What is the breakdown of men and women by degree type?
katie5445 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #20
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:17-06-2018 06:58:01Copy HTML

I don't know but I do know women still choose some type of health care profession, whether with humans or animals including administration, and education as well. Men by far are still the majority in engineering fields, although women who succeeded in being better at math than males are starting to choose engineering compared to a couple decades ago where women were under 6% in those classes, average now is 20% with some colleges up to 30%. Those holding jobs in engineering professions, 14%. Classes in computer science is where you still see the majority of men, maybe women don't like boring jobs. 
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #21
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:18-06-2018 12:03:50Copy HTML

Reply to katie5445 

Demographics in college have dramatically changed yet the percentages of women in high powered jobs, is still extremely low as well.

The percentages of women in low powered jobs is still extremely low, too, as is the percentages of women in prison.

I think we can all agree of equality of opportunity is a very good thing and nowhere on earth is equality of opportunity more the case than in westernized nations.

But.  Equality of opportunity is not going to result in equality of outcome.  There will never be 51% female programmers, police officers, CEO's, bricklayers, lawyers, etc.  This is not due to oppression or social pressures, it's due to individual choices and biological proclivities.

This is perfectly okay.

The alleged 'gender pay gap' fallacy is a reflection of the types of jobs women, in general, tend to choose.  Well, okay, if we accept that then a legitimate question might be, 'why don't those types of jobs pay the same as the types of jobs men, in general, tend to pursue'?

Well, that touches on another fallacy;  that the effort necessary for a particular job should be reflected in the wages that job commands.

Wages don't reflect physical difficulty, not 1 for 1.  If they did, then the guys running hand shovels and jackhammers would be in the top 1%.  Women don't choose those jobs, either.

Wages reflect a variety of factors including scarcity (how many people are willing to do a particular job), education (including the cost of that education), and above all, how many people are willing to pay for what you do and how much they are willing to pay.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
katie5445 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #22
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:18-06-2018 03:03:56Copy HTML

The gap in salary is when men and women do the exact same job. Women still have to do the majority of housework, cooking, laundry, errands and the kid raising bit as they work, makes jack hammering rather out, although I never saw women in construction decades ago but you do now and flying jets in combat, cops, fire persons, which none were on my list of careers but then there weren't any, especially in flying jets, not allowed as was the women's vote. These are jobs that persons challenge that only men should have still. What was it 50 yrs after black male slaves got to vote when women did not. I will not disagree that women have a far better opportunity in the western world but if I have the same degree as a male and you hire me, you better pay me the same as you would a man and it is not a "fallacy" that it is not happening and it makes women take jobs they are over qualified for and at a lower salary.
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #23
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:18-06-2018 06:52:05Copy HTML

Reply to katie5445

The gap in salary is when men and women do the exact same job.
Well, no.  That's the problem with the 'gender wage gap', it doesn't measure that.  It takes the sum total of working men and averages their wages.  It takes the sum total of working women and averages their wages.  The two figures are then compared and that's where the discrepancy is found.  It doesn't take into account relevant factors such as types of jobs the two genders tend to occupy, hours they work, the willingness to relocate, their general abilities to negotiate wages, etc., etc., etc.  Once those are factored in, the 'wage gap' disappears into statistically irrelevancy... meaning less than the margin of error of the study.

I will not disagree that women have a far better opportunity in the western world but if I have the same degree as a male and you hire me, you better pay me the same as you would a man

I agree, depending on context, circumstance and performance.  A woman working a heavy physical labor job isn't going to command the same wages simply because she can't do the same work at the same speed in the same conditions as the average man.  That physical limitation is overcome in areas where machinery is involved however there are limited number of machines available and the people already operating them aren't going to give up their jobs willingly just to meet an arbitrary gender quota even if you could find enough women who want to run a loader, crane, 18 wheeler or other piece of machinery.

and it is not a "fallacy" that it is not happening and it makes women take jobs they are over qualified for and at a lower salary.

That happens to men, as well so it's not gender so much as demand.  If what you or I can do is not in demand, we're not going to be able to enter the field commanding much leverage at the negotiating table for wages and benefits.

From my perspective, and it's a perspective widely shared, the 'gender pay gap' is a fraud and not even a subtle fraud.  The idea that women are discriminated against as explanation as to why there is not a 51%/50% female to male representation in CEO's and other high profile positions is just not true when you look at it without presupposing the cause.

Women are under represented in those fields for the same reason they are under represented in other fields;  garbage men, pilots, welders, laborers, linemen, law enforcement, etc., etc., etc., and that reason is simply;  they don't apply for the jobs.

Now you might speculate they don't apply for those types of jobs because 'society' tells women they should stay home barefoot and pregnant or similar nonsense.  I'm going to state plainly that anyone who thinks that is the reason is an ignorant moron enthralled to an ideology rather than reality.

As you pointed out, women are dominating the universities... and they're still not applying for those jobs.  There are exceptions, of course.  There have been exceptions for decades.  I know two women who drove big rigs in the 1970's.  I've worked with female carpenters, female laborers and female CO's since 1983, when I entered the work force.  Some were good hands, some were liabilities.  Same happens with dudes so, it is what it is.

The point is... no one is holding women back.  They're under represented in many fields because they don't appear to want the jobs.  The state of Alaska is so desperate for female C.O.'s that they have literally dropped the hiring standards so low that... well, we've gotten a few in who were just worthless and let me tell you, being a CO isn't rocket science.  Some of the women we've brought on are so low functioning that even this job is hard for them.  Impossible, in a few cases. 
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #24
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:18-06-2018 04:23:31Copy HTML

Alaska says that in the same job women are paid the same as men, but Forbes disputes the claim.

Women Are Still Paid Less Than Men - Even In The Same Job

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jwebb/2016/03/31/women-are-still-paid...

Mar 31, 2016 · That women receive lower wages than men is a known fact of most economies. However, Procurement Leaders research shows clear evidence that women earn lower wages than their male counterparts even when in the same role. 


~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
easyrider123 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #25
  • From:Norway

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:18-06-2018 05:15:09Copy HTML

You have to understand, alaska is creating a fantasy world of his own making here. Statistics, his own perception of "average" people are, totally hypothetical balderdash leaves us with errant assumptions and ridiculous scenarios. 

The real world doesn't operate this way, and that is the problem today. "Average" people don't truly exist except for the purpose of inventing guidelines to follow in making statistics, making arbitrary hiring decisions, etc, etc. These are the reasons we are losing our way. "Average" doesn't exist. 

Like taking a group of 30 people that all need a specific shirt for work, for example. The tallest is 6' the shortest is 5' 6", the heaviest is 325lbs, the lightest is 140lbs. 1/2 are male, 1/2 female. So let's add them up take an average and get 30 shirts for the average size of the group. 

Ridiculous eh? Well, extrapolate that mentality through out and we have alaska world. 

The thing is, there are women who are stronger than men, smarter than men, etc, etc., and visa versa. It's too bad we have come to this in most aspects of our lives. Looking at "averages" and statistics when making decisions, rather than the much more practical and successful method of taking each person, place and thing individually and uniquely. As they really are. 

From my own small world, when I hire anyone I want to sit down face to face and conduct a friendly thorough interview. The resume has little weight other than giving me an idea of what if any experience the person comes with. I have a much more solid idea of who the person is and what I can hope for with them by face to face honest discussion. 

People who hire based on resumes and impersonal scripted interview processes don't fair as well. And again extrapolate these things as far and wide as you like. We now try to suck the most $$$ out of every situation with the very least amount of time or effort. It's no longer efficiency, it's inhumane lustful greed drive. 

alaska, it's probably good for you to get yoiur head out of that regimented isolated from reality world of corrections. But try to keep an open mind, your direction is really negative and not realistic. Your imagination gets away from you it seems


THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway.
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #26
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:19-06-2018 02:12:35Copy HTML

Reply to mickeyrat

Alaska says that in the same job women are paid the same as men, but Forbes disputes the claim.

Women Are Still Paid Less Than Men - Even In The Same Job

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jwebb/2016/03/31/women-are-still-paid...

Mar 31, 2016 · That women receive lower wages than men is a known fact of most economies. However, Procurement Leaders research shows clear evidence that women earn lower wages than their male counterparts even when in the same role.


Don't Buy Into The Gender Pay Gap Myth - Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/.../dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/

It's a mistake to look at what is without considering why it is.  And once you understand why
something is, the next step is to decide whether or not something should be done about it and
if a 'cure' will be worse than the disease.

Women tend not to choose the same jobs, they tend not to work the same hours, they tend
not to be as competitive as men.  Women who do work the same jobs, the same hours and
exhibit the same competitiveness get paid the same or more.

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
txtiki Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #27
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:19-06-2018 02:39:00Copy HTML

 Well, I know women lawyers who put in as many or more hours as their male counterparts, have as much "book", but aren't offered partnerships.... which is why they have to go out and start their own firms.  The law is still very much a "good old boys" club.

"Fusion spoke with former ABA President Laurel Bellows about the numbers. She said women face hurdles when trying to negotiate for better pay.

“Are women good negotiators? Yes,” Bellows said. “But women are often labeled as greedy and aggressive and not team driven when asking for a well-deserved raise and bonus. Men who ask are viewed as strong and good negotiators hard workers worthy of consideration for an increase.”

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/pay_gap_is_greatest_in_legal_occupations/

[marquee][FONT family=Comic Sans MS color=blue size=14px] "Too much of a good thing can be wonderful" ~~ Mae West [/FONT][/marquee]
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #28
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:19-06-2018 02:53:02Copy HTML

Reply to txtiki

 Well, I know women lawyers who put in as many or more hours as their male counterparts, have as much "book", but aren't offered partnerships.... which is why they have to go out and start their own firms.  The law is still very much a "good old boys" club.
"Fusion spoke with former ABA President Laurel Bellows about the numbers. She said women face hurdles when trying to negotiate for better pay.

“Are women good negotiators? Yes,” Bellows said. “But women are often labeled as greedy and aggressive and not team driven when asking for a well-deserved raise and bonus. Men who ask are viewed as strong and good negotiators hard workers worthy of consideration for an increase.”

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/pay_gap_is_greatest_in_legal_occupations/


They are also quitting in their late 30's to 40's to start families.  That alone, if not factored into the statistics, will create a difference in wages across the genders in the legal profession... all professions, really.

Nothing about the way things are is simple but to attempt to pin observed inequalities solely on discrimination is deliberately simplistic and ignores completely the personal choices of individuals.

It's quite probably true that maternity leave alone is a huge factor, if not the primary one, and you could argue that it would be a good idea to do something about that but then you would need to ask, 'what' and 'how' and what the unforeseen consequences will be because there will certainly be some.

But to blame motherhood as some sort of discrimination by 'the patriarchy', whatever that is, is a disingenuous argument.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #29
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:19-06-2018 03:51:09Copy HTML


Women tend not to choose the same jobs, they tend not to work the same hours, they tend 
not to be as competitive as men.  Women who do work the same jobs, the same hours and 
exhibit the same competitiveness get paid the same or more.

You're full of shit. You've got every excuse in the world. How many women have you worked with? You're a prison guard. 

I've worked with women who could and did work half the men under the ground. I've worked with women every bit as competitive as any man,. And why should "competitiveness" make a difference as to how much you get paid? 

Where are you coming up with this bullshit, which is yet ANOTHER attempt by you to prove that you, a white man, are really the one oppressed in this country, and that all the groups who HAVE been disadvantaged by white men really have nothing to bitch about because it's all their own fault. Damn, if women ONLY wouldn't be mothers we'd be willing to pay them the same. Damn, if blacks would ONLY do this or that. 

Meanwhile pussy little white men cry and bitch and moan about how oppressed they are, then, when they can't stand their own fucking inferiority complexes, go out and shoot up a school or a concert to make them feel like men again.

Damn I can't stand fucking whiny white men. They have EVERY advantage in this nation and then, when they can't hack it, they whine whine whine. 



~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #30
  • From:USA

Re:Jordan Peterson

Date Posted:19-06-2018 03:53:38Copy HTML

 They are also quitting in their late 30's to 40's to start families.  That alone, if not factored into the statistics, will create a difference in wages across the genders in the legal profession... all professions, really.

More bullshit. More excuses. More whining.
~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
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