Free Speech
FSA Ticket | Today | Join | Member | Search | Who's On | Help | Sign In | |
FSA > General > Political Discussion Go to subcategory:
Author Content
Nickel
  • From:USA

Date Posted:27-08-2018 12:20:46Copy HTML

I don’t bother read anything that has Trump in the title.

He will probably win a second term.


Seems to me voters are unhappy with the lesser of two evils, figuring out which is which, and have just decided to simply sway back and forth between the Democrats and Republicans every eight years and hope for something in the middle to emerge overall that doesn’t ruin the country.  Being ever vigilant is too hard.


What goes around, comes around.
bones1776 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:27-08-2018 02:29:29Copy HTML

Being ever vigilant is too hard.


I wish I could summon up a bit more enthusiasm but I get it.

Live it or live with it.
govols Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:27-08-2018 11:56:26Copy HTML

I've almost decided to just vote for whoever it seems will piss off the most people.
Nickel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:27-08-2018 10:17:19Copy HTML

It seems to be true that 40% of voters will vote Republican and 40% will vote Democrat. Neither has enough to win so they target the 20% that can give them the election...some really strange courting has been happening. Independent voters decide which party wins, but they can’t win with a candidate of their own. People say they’re independent, but they choose a party candidate on Election Day. To get on the ballot is a challenge for independents. The electoral college is another hurdle for independent candidates. Media doesn’t cover independents like it does all the party hopefuls before the nomination. Campaign war chests seem to predetermine the nomination. Only 25% vote, so if 75% is content with what the 25% decides, I guess the country deserves what it gets with so many irresponsible people. I don’t like it, but I am not leaving.
What goes around, comes around.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:28-08-2018 12:06:24Copy HTML

You Americans have a Mickey Mouse political system.  Fix it or live with shit like having a choice between Clinton and Trump and being lumbered with shits like Trump.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Nickel Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:29-08-2018 05:38:27Copy HTML

Mickey Mouse? Our system is amazing. Our Presidents are the best leaders on the planet even when I vote for the other guy. We may not be the oldest country, but our government is the longest serving governing entry. Complain all you want, but who saves the old countries from themselves. Americans always seem to have enough people here to be concerned about people over there. We prefer isolationism but then some poorly informed adversary ......
What goes around, comes around.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:29-08-2018 06:22:59Copy HTML

Mickey Mouse?  Our system is amazing.  Our Presidents are the best leaders on the planet even when I vote for the other guy. We may not be the oldest country, but our government is the longest serving governing entry.  Complain all you want, but who saves the old countries from themselves.  Americans always seem to have enough people here to be concerned about people over there. We prefer isolationism but then some poorly informed adversary ......


The American system was set up by snobs who felt they were aristocrats.  They had a particular hatred of the common man so they produced a group of electoral laws that narrowed the say of hoi polloi, almost to the point of elimination.  And thus democracy was almost side-stepped.

Never mind that, Americans hold up their political system as a model of democracy.

,

hrmph.


And your political leaders, to varying degrees, have been one dead beat after another since Ike..



"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:29-08-2018 11:12:01Copy HTML

The American system was set up by snobs who felt they were aristocrats.  They had a particular hatred of the common man so they produced a group of electoral laws that narrowed the say of hoi polloi, almost to the point of elimination.  And thus democracy was almost side-stepped.

Umm, no.  Not even close to accurate.  Is that what y'all are taught?


Never mind that, Americans hold up their political system as a model of democracy.

Democracy sucks.


hrmph.

Hrumph, back.


And your political leaders, to varying degrees, have been one dead beat after another since Ike..

Oh, much longer than that.  Kind of the point of making the presidency mainly a figurehead.  Now, it's true that our congress has turned into a spineless pack of weasels and allowed the executive branch to expand in authority far, far beyond what was ever intended.  I suspect the racist democrats are deeply regretting their role in letting that happen... if only because it isn't their asshole in the seat at the moment.


However, the folk who designed the federal government were not snobs, they  didn't like aristocrats and very much did not want any form of king to emerge in this nation. 

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:29-08-2018 06:24:59Copy HTML


However, the folk who designed the federal government were not snobs, they  didn't like aristocrats and very much did not want any form of king to emerge in this nation. 


They were right to get rid of the monarchy but they made the mistake of instituting a system which was effectively an elected monarch who was restricted to 4 years at a time.

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:29-08-2018 07:42:46Copy HTML


However, the folk who designed the federal government were not snobs, they  didn't like aristocrats and very much did not want any form of king to emerge in this nation. 


They were right to get rid of the monarchy but they made the mistake of instituting a system which was effectively an elected monarch who was restricted to 4 years at a time.


There were NO limits to how many times one could run until after FDR, thus  making one having to WORK at being re-elected, not just elected automatically, necesitating being subject to the voters.

Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:29-08-2018 09:03:26Copy HTML


However, the folk who designed the federal government were not snobs, they  didn't like aristocrats and very much did not want any form of king to emerge in this nation. 


They were right to get rid of the monarchy but they made the mistake of instituting a system which was effectively an elected monarch who was restricted to 4 years at a time.


There were NO limits to how many times one could run until after FDR, thus  making one having to WORK at being re-elected, not just elected automatically, necesitating being subject to the voters.



What I said was the "monarch" was elected for 4 years a time; I didn't say that the elected one was restricted to any particular number of 4 years.  The elected one simply had to play to the prejudices of *his voters.

*his - so far they have all been male.

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Aprildaze Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:30-08-2018 11:43:15Copy HTML


I for one, and I am among many, feel safe and confident with Trump as president.  



If you permit yourself to become too open-minded, your brains could fall out.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:30-08-2018 04:02:43Copy HTML


However, the folk who designed the federal government were not snobs, they  didn't like aristocrats and very much did not want any form of king to emerge in this nation. 


They were right to get rid of the monarchy but they made the mistake of instituting a system which was effectively an elected monarch who was restricted to 4 years at a time.


There were NO limits to how many times one could run until after FDR, thus  making one having to WORK at being re-elected, not just elected automatically, necesitating being subject to the voters.



What I said was the "monarch" was elected for 4 years a time; I didn't say that the elected one was restricted to any particular number of 4 years.  The elected one simply had to play to the prejudices of *his voters.

*his - so far they have all been male.


What are you like on the rare occasions when you are NOT under the influence?

Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:30-08-2018 07:33:03Copy HTML

What are you like on the rare occasions when you are NOT under the influence?



I don't know, wale.  What are YOU like when you're not under the influence?

Wait, what am I asking?  You are ALWAYS under the influence.

LOL

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #14
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:31-08-2018 04:28:28Copy HTML

What are you like on the rare occasions when you are NOT under the influence?



I don't know, wale.  What are YOU like when you're not under the influence?

Wait, what am I asking?  You are ALWAYS under the influence.

LOL


Thank you as I am ALWAYS under the influence of CLEAR REALITY and UNABRIDGED TRUTH, whereas YOU are always under a mentally disabling influence. LOL

Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #15
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:31-08-2018 06:28:16Copy HTML

Wale, YOU are just simply and completely mentally disturbed.

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:31-08-2018 06:49:35Copy HTML

Wale, YOU are just simply and completely mentally disturbed.


TRANSLATION

" When I, boguspumped, can't defend my already absurd poisition, I just go off in other weak directions"

Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #17
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:01-09-2018 11:33:30Copy HTML

TRANSLATION STATUS: FAILED

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #18
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:02-09-2018 12:16:56Copy HTML

 

He will probably win a second term.

I really really don't think so. It took a literal electoral miracle for him to win this time. I just read yesterday that except for some purged voter rolls in MI that state would have gone blue instead of to Trump, and then Clinton would have won. This is the second time this has happened--see Jim's thread on the subject. Even if he had won MI squarely and fairly, the fact is that a mere 100,000 votes out of 100,000,000 cast would have changed the result. People mock the pollsters who said Hillary would win based on their percentages, and they were right that Hillary won the percentages, just not in the right places. It took an absolute whack of serendipity for Trump to win, and I would be heartily surprised if he accomplishes the same thing next time around, especially given the enthusiasm gap between Dems and Republicans.

The
American system was set up by snobs who felt they were aristocrats. 
They had a particular hatred of the common man so they produced a group
of electoral laws that narrowed the say of hoi polloi, almost to the
point of elimination.  And thus democracy was almost side-stepped.

Umm, no.  Not even close to accurate.  Is that what y'all are taught?

Unfortunately, Yobbo is right. Those who designed the American constitution were the elite of this country. It wasn't backwoods farmers who were chosen for the Constitutional convention, it wasn't backwoods farmers who wrote the long epistles both pro and con on ratification, it wasn't backwoods farmers who eventually in the state houses voted to ratify it, and finally it wasn't backwoods farmers who were elected to start with to implement it.

In all those cases, it was the American monied elite which did these things, aided by those like--even though he is my favorite Founding Father-- Alexander Hamilton, who though poor served the interests of the then-1%ers. It might do you and others well to check out a cliff notes version of Charles Beard's "An Economic Interpretation of the Constitution" which, while flawed in some details, is very sound in respect to its origins and intent: by the wealthy for the protection of the wealthy.

Hell, even the "no taxation without representation" reflects the interests of the 1%ers, the property owners whether landed or merchant, THEY were the ones who then as now bore the burden of the taxes levied by the Crown, and it was their complaint that they had no representation in Parliament which gave rise to the NTWR phrasing. They weren't interested in democracy, or, until forced into it, independence HERE, but rather wanted representation in Parliament, which is where tax policy was set.

And these same guys also made sure that the electoral methods in their state reflected the interests of the monied class, limiting the franchise for example to those who actually owned property, white, male, and, in some states, those who were registered members of a state church.

So, yes, Yobbo is right in his charge. This system is not democratic as in the sense of being intended to work for the people's interest as a majority of the people. Rather the people were deemed necessary to be led by their 'betters', and our Constitution reflects in every respect that exact belief.

That said, it is ironic that Yobbo criticizes American democracy without noting that both his nation and my own learned at the teats of the same mother, and that the Parliamentary system is EVERY bit as much prone to the belief that some are better fitted to rule their inferiors. The rotton boroughs of Britain, where a very few electors chose MPs at the behest of the aristocrat in that nation, it took a virtual revolt in Britain to bring the Reform Bill to fruition.

There is, in short NO system of government which is NOT designed to protect the rich and powerful. Before Yobbo pokes as his mote he should at least check out the NZ log and determine how exactly NZ represents the ideal democracy he apparently believes it to be.

~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #19
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:02-09-2018 03:55:20Copy HTML

TRANSLATION STATUS: FAILED- ONLY in boguspumped's irrational thoughts


TRANSLATION

" When I, boguspumped, can't defend my already absurd poisition, and live in a reality of my OWN making, I just go off in other weak directions"

Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #20
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:02-09-2018 06:12:15Copy HTML

Mickey,  democracy in New Zealand is a work in progress but the nation that was the first to allow women the vote, it's history isn't too bad.   One reason we migrated here.

Unlike the US, the political systems in Britain and New Zealand are relatively easy to change and evolve while America's is almost cast in stone.

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #21
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:02-09-2018 08:50:17Copy HTML

Mickey,  democracy in New Zealand is a work in progress but the nation that was the first to allow women the vote, it's history isn't too bad.   One reason we migrated here.

Unlike the US, the political systems in Britain and New Zealand are relatively easy to change and evolve while America's is almost cast in stone.


Just purposely slow to prevent knee jerk legislation

Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #22
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:02-09-2018 09:09:41Copy HTML

Would you like to elaborate?
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #23
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:02-09-2018 05:08:18Copy HTML

Would you like to elaborate?


The slowness of the process was intentional in order that ANY legislation passed, or amendments to the Constitution, be deliberate and debated enough so that by the time of passage, the idea was that enough time would have gone by to examine, discuss and possibly modify any proposals before they became permanent.

mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #24
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:02-09-2018 05:12:18Copy HTML

If it will make you more familiar, Yobbo, think it as our way of doing the First, Second and Third Reading of a bill.
~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #25
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:02-09-2018 07:20:45Copy HTML

Until the electoral college is dumped (or very radically changed) democracy in the US is just a word, not even an idea to aspire to..
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #26
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:02-09-2018 07:41:27Copy HTML

Until you are capable of analyzing things in respect to reality and not your druthers, you are not even an idea to aspire to. 42 times out of 45 the Electoral College has represented the popular will. Second, I wish the fuck you would learn the difference between direct and representative democracy. You don't live under a direct democracy any more than I do. A majority feeling something in NZ no more means its implementation than it does in America. You are carping basically over bullshit, JUST for the sake of carping. I highly doubt you, any more than any of us, wants to live in a state where the transitory emotions of the crowd count for more than deliberation and consideration.
~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #27
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:02-09-2018 08:54:58Copy HTML

I refer to the proportion of votes required to elect a government.

In the case of US presidents, of the past 4 leaders there has been two elected with an electoral majority and two that were not.

It is my contention that this isn't democratic.


This anti-democratic events are not unknown in other countries. For example, New Zealand recently elected a government that had fewer votes than the opposition but this is the first time for decades. As I pointed out, this happens in America rather more often.  Incidentally, unlike the US results, the NZ government is headed by the Labour (Leftist) party.

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #28
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:02-09-2018 10:09:59Copy HTML

 

As I pointed out, this happens in America rather more often. 

Well, no, yobbo, not rather more often. 2 times in the last 4 elections, yes, but only 3 times total in over 200 years. In the meantime, you yourself have a government not elected by a majority, and NZ has been a state for MUCH less time than the US.

So it doesn't seem to me you have much to carp about.

So by your own definition neither of our states is "democratic". And by my definition, at least in America the state was SET UP TO BE THAT WAY.

And I have in the past pointed out that the problem with the Parliamentary system is that it requires coalition governing. Why does Israel have such a hard line on religious matters? Is it because Israelis are so religious in general?

No. It's because in order to get a parliamentary majority, Likud since Begin's time has had to include the Shas Orthodox party, which doesn't get many votes, but gets enough deputies that without Likud kowtowing to Shas' religious demands Likud can't form a government.

So don't be telling me how unrepresentative the American system is when we are likely to endure Armageddon in the MidEast because a tiny minority of Israelis wield such a disproportionate amount of power in the Israeli Knesset and Cabinet.

~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #29
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:02-09-2018 10:10:38Copy HTML

And before you start whining about how you don't support Israel, note that the discussion is about Parliamentary governance, and Israel just the most obvious example that comes to mind.
~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #30
  • From:USA

Re:Just waiting for Trump to leave office.

Date Posted:03-09-2018 01:04:41Copy HTML

Until the electoral college is dumped (or very radically changed) democracy in the US is just a word, not even an idea to aspire to..


That is only your skewed opinion. We are NOT a democracy but a republic.

Copyright © 2000-2018 Aimoo Free Forum All rights reserved.