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Tomlapaz
  • From:USA

Date Posted:01-04-2018 06:27:08Copy HTML

A descendant of David was born in Bethlehem (as foretold by the Jewish prophet Micah), died for the sins of his people and raised from the dead (as foretold by the Jewish prophet Isaiah and Jewish King David), 2000 years ago (in the time as foretold by the Jewish prophet Daniel). And because of this descendant of David, men and women everywhere have the means of finding peace with the Creator of the heavens and the earth. The forgiveness of sins.

Jesus: For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #241
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 07:28:02Copy HTML

 More meaningless babble.  Of course you cant prove there is no God.  More "I just cant understand it all so there must be a God"    Utterly irrelevant to the issue we are discussing.

Science has proven evolution is a fact as I have demonstrated and you have been unable to rebut in any way.  You can be amazed at the universe all you like but that is 1) not evidence of God and 2) unrelated to the topic of the fact of evolution,

If you don't believe evolution is a fact, now would be a good time to present the data that says I am wrong. Its almost page 9.

Do you need me to link all of the studies again?



"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #242
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 07:35:34Copy HTML

 Why is our universe so precisely tailor-made for the emergence of life?

____


A: It isn't. The Universe is harsh and not at all tailored precisely for the "emergence" of life. The whole argument is silly and in fact supports evolution.  Life is fine tuned for a minute fraction of the universe, not the other way around.  Evolution follows the environmental template.

The incredible fine tuning is a myth. In a scape of many universes....an infinite sea of them....the odds of something not resulting in life are more incalculable than the alleged odds of life occurring.

B: Note they say "Emergence of life"...as in evolution.  lol


Once again the idiot presents an argument that actually says life evolved.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #243
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 08:16:12Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 More meaningless babble.  Of course you cant prove there is no God.  More "I just cant understand it all so there must be a God"    Utterly irrelevant to the issue we are discussing.

Science has proven evolution is a fact as I have demonstrated and you have been unable to rebut in any way.  You can be amazed at the universe all you like but that is 1) not evidence of God and 2) unrelated to the topic of the fact of evolution,

If you don't believe evolution is a fact, now would be a good time to present the data that says I am wrong. Its almost page 9.

Do you need me to link all of the studies again?




It's amazing how you continually are more accredited and more learned than ANY scientist who posts a thought and idea contrary to your constructs.

YOU I guess are much more accredited and intelligent than the spectrum of names posted. YOU know MORE than mathematicians, cosmologists, and any other scientists  who say something that YOU don't agree with. You avoid Aczel.s most simple statements and questions:

Where do symbolic thinking and self-awareness come from?

What is it that allows humans to understand the mysteries of biology, physics, mathematics, engineering and medicine?

Why are even the tiniest particles of matter so unbelievably complicated?

What enables us to create great works of art, music, architecture and literature?

Why is our universe so precisely tailor-made for the emergence of life?

We know that 13.7 billion years ago, a gargantuan burst of energy, whose nature and source are completely unknown to us and not in the least understood by science, initiated the creation of our universe...

Science is nowhere near to explaining these deep mysteries...

The incredible fine-tuning of the universe presents the most powerful argument for the existence of an immanent creative entity we may well call God

the deeper we delve into the mysteries of physics and cosmology, the more the universe appears to be intricate and incredibly complex.

Lacking convincing scientific evidence to the contrary, such a power may be necessary to force all the parameters we need for our existence—cosmological, physical, chemical, biological and cognitive—to be what they are...."




wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #244
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 08:21:32Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 Why is our universe so precisely tailor-made for the emergence of life?

____


A: It isn't. The Universe is harsh and not at all tailored precisely for the "emergence" of life. The whole argument is silly and in fact supports evolution.  Life is fine tuned for a minute fraction of the universe, not the other way around.  Evolution follows the environmental template.

The incredible fine tuning is a myth. In a scape of many universes....an infinite sea of them....the odds of something not resulting in life are more incalculable than the alleged odds of life occurring.

B: Note they say "Emergence of life"...as in evolution.  lol


Once again the idiot presents an argument that actually says life evolved.


In his foray into biology, Aczel says the theory of evolution is flawed. In particular, he points out that it does not explain altruistic behavior with no apparent survival benefit to the genes of the do-gooder. ........ Aczel writes, with the implication that such qualities come from religion and spirituality.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #245
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 08:31:24Copy HTML

 In his foray into biology, Aczel says the theory of evolution is flawed. In particular, he points out that it does not explain altruistic behavior with no apparent survival benefit to the genes of the do-gooder. ........ Aczel writes, with the implication that such qualities come from religion and spirituality.

_______

Once again....you do not post any evidence or data whatsoever that in any way refute the fact of evolution, the actual observations of evolution I posted.

You live in God of the Gaps-land..".But we cant explain altruism" (we can)

A mathematician says altruism is not explained....but it is....long ago.  Benefits to the species are individual benefits.

One such study looked at altruism in vampire bats, one of my favorites.  They feed at night on cattle and other large animals and come back to the roost.   Some bats don't find food at night and others do.  The ones that find food will regurgitate a portion into the throats of the ones that did not.  What possible evolutionary benefit could that provide? It turns out that having a small amount of food keeps you alive for many hours longer than giving up a small amount of food.  So the benefit of societal cooperation is an individual one....hence, altruism in the truest sense doesn't really exist.

Aczel is wrong...but I'm sure he is a fine mathematician...probably long ago dead since you cant seem to find any recent scientists who agree with your nonsense.

God of the Gaps

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Every field of science has unanswered questions and gaps in our understanding. Scientists typically view these as open research questions. Others sometimes argue that if science can’t explain how something happened, then God must be the explanation. Such arguments are called “god-of-the-gaps” arguments. The risk in these arguments is that science is always developing. If gaps in scientific knowledge are the basis for belief in God, then as scientists fill in the gaps, the evidence for God disappears. The God of the Bible, however, is much more than a god of the gaps. Christians believe that God is always at work in the natural world, in the gaps as well as in the areas that science can explain.


Defining God-of-the-Gaps

God-of-the-gaps arguments use gaps in scientific explanation as indicators, or even proof, of God’s action and therefore of God’s existence. Such arguments propose divine acts in place of natural, scientific causes for phenomena that science cannot yet explain. The assumption is that if science cannot explain how something happened, then God must be the explanation. But the danger of using a God-of-the-gaps argument for the action or existence of God is that it lacks the foresight of future scientific discoveries. With the continuing advancement of science, God-of-the-gaps explanations often get replaced by natural mechanisms. Therefore, when such arguments are used as apologetic tools, scientific research can unnecessarily be placed at odds with belief in God. The recent Intelligent Design (ID) movement highlights this problem. Certain ID arguments, like the irreducible complexity of the human eye or the bacterial flagellum, are rapidly being undercut by new scientific discoveries.




"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #246
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 08:34:59Copy HTML

 You are spending a lot of time googling for irrelevant information Wale.  Mostly information you misunderstand and misrepresent.

How about spending some time trying to disprove the data I presented that showed evolution is a fact rather than quotes from dead mathematicians who don't understand biology?

It is now page 9 and you have yet to attempt to disprove the fact of evolution that I demonstrated in numerous scientific publications where we have actually observed it.

Don't you think it is time to start this debate?  When do you plan to enter it?

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #247
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 08:39:47Copy HTML

 Where do symbolic thinking and self-awareness come from? Evolution

What is it that allows humans to understand the mysteries of biology, physics, mathematics, engineering and medicine? Evolution

Why are even the tiniest particles of matter so unbelievably complicated? They are not.  They are quite simple. Perhaps you meant single celled organisms....which is explained by evolution as well.

What enables us to create great works of art, music, architecture and literature? Our Evolution

Why is our universe so precisely tailor-made for the emergence of life?  It is not.  This is false.

______


Animals are attaining self awareness. Does that mean God did it?  Elephants will walk many miles to places with no food or water only to visit the bones of a close relative and spend several days standing around it.   They are beginning to contemplate their existence just as our ancestors did several millions of years ago.

But I digress.

We have witnessed the fact of evolution.  Questioning the theory of evolution is interesting but irrelevant to the existence of the fact of evolution.  They are two different things.

Ready to present your evidence that our proven demonstrated witnessed examples of evolution being fact....are not facts?


"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #248
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 08:46:25Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 In his foray into biology, Aczel says the theory of evolution is flawed. In particular, he points out that it does not explain altruistic behavior with no apparent survival benefit to the genes of the do-gooder. ........ Aczel writes, with the implication that such qualities come from religion and spirituality.

_______

Once again....you do not post any evidence or data whatsoever that in any way refute the fact of evolution, the actual observations of evolution I posted.

You live in God of the Gaps-land..".But we cant explain altruism" (we can)

A mathematician says altruism is not explained....but it is....long ago.  Benefits to the species are individual benefits.

One such study looked at altruism in vampire bats, one of my favorites.  They feed at night on cattle and other large animals and come back to the roost.   Some bats don't find food at night and others do.  The ones that find food will regurgitate a portion into the throats of the ones that did not.  What possible evolutionary benefit could that provide? It turns out that having a small amount of food keeps you alive for many hours longer than giving up a small amount of food.  So the benefit of societal cooperation is an individual one....hence, altruism in the truest sense doesn't really exist.

Aczel is wrong...but I'm sure he is a fine mathematician...probably long ago dead since you cant seem to find any recent scientists who agree with your nonsense.

God of the Gaps

<!--<script type="text/javascript"> document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded", function() { var fbook = document.getElementById('facebook-share'), twitter = document.getElementById('twitter-share'), google = document.getElementById('google-share'), email = document.getElementById('email-share'); fbook.href = "http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=" + window.location.href; twitter.href = "https://twitter.com/share?url=" + window.location.href; google.href = "https://plus.google.com/share?url=" + window.location.href; email.href = "mailto:?Body=I%20saw%20this%20and%20thought%20of%20you!%20 " + window.location.href; }); </script> -->

Every field of science has unanswered questions and gaps in our understanding. Scientists typically view these as open research questions. Others sometimes argue that if science can’t explain how something happened, then God must be the explanation. Such arguments are called “god-of-the-gaps” arguments. The risk in these arguments is that science is always developing. If gaps in scientific knowledge are the basis for belief in God, then as scientists fill in the gaps, the evidence for God disappears. The God of the Bible, however, is much more than a god of the gaps. Christians believe that God is always at work in the natural world, in the gaps as well as in the areas that science can explain.


Defining God-of-the-Gaps

God-of-the-gaps arguments use gaps in scientific explanation as indicators, or even proof, of God’s action and therefore of God’s existence. Such arguments propose divine acts in place of natural, scientific causes for phenomena that science cannot yet explain. The assumption is that if science cannot explain how something happened, then God must be the explanation. But the danger of using a God-of-the-gaps argument for the action or existence of God is that it lacks the foresight of future scientific discoveries. With the continuing advancement of science, God-of-the-gaps explanations often get replaced by natural mechanisms. Therefore, when such arguments are used as apologetic tools, scientific research can unnecessarily be placed at odds with belief in God. The recent Intelligent Design (ID) movement highlights this problem. Certain ID arguments, like the irreducible complexity of the human eye or the bacterial flagellum, are rapidly being undercut by new scientific discoveries.




Amir Dan Aczel (November 6, 1950 – November 26, 2015) was an Israeli-born American lecturer in mathematics and the history of mathematics and science, and an author of popular books on mathematics and science.

He accepted a professorship at Bentley College in Massachusetts, where he taught classes on the history of science and the history of mathematics.

Aczel was a 2004 Fellow of the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation and Visiting Scholar in the History of Science at Harvard University (2007). In 2003 he became a research fellow at the Boston University Center for Philosophy and History of Science, and in Fall 2011 was teaching mathematics courses at University of Massachusetts Boston. He died in Nîmes, France in 2015 from cancer.

__________________________________________________________________

In “Einstein, God, and the Big Bang,” a colorful chapter of his new book, Amir D. Aczel maintains that Albert Einstein truly believed in God.


From booklist:

"As a mathematician with a Berkeley-Harvard résumé, Aczel wields impressive intellectual weapons in demolishing the New Atheists’ claims that science has disproven the existence of God. With compelling reasoning, Aczel demonstrates that whenever Dawkins and his allies turn their attacks against anything but naively literal readings of the Bible, they distort or misrepresent the methods and findings of science."


BTW skdoodle, what books have YOU written?

skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #249
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 08:52:44Copy HTML

 I have written several and as well as chapters in textbooks.  One on coral reef restoration and one on Oil Spill Science and Technology.  I have published don't know how many papers in scientific journals on aspects of biology.  Couldn't you tell from how smart I am and this stuff rolls off my fingertips without using Google?

I guess that backfired on you didn't it...Wdoodle?

I am more equipped than any mathematician to discuss evolution.  I can show you hundreds of papers on evolution of altruism and unfortunately your dead mathematician has no response.  How is my background relevant to the data I presented?

Wale is just deflecting from entering the debate.

Many people believe in God Wale.  Recall Dr. Francis Collins, former head of the human genome project.  Big time geneticist and DNA expert.  He was a devout believer in God.  But he also admitted evolution was a fact and required no supernatural interventions.  Many scientists believe in a higher power.  That is not relevant to the acceptance of evolution as fact...it is a fact.

Do you have any evidence to the facts of evolution I have posted? 



"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #250
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 08:57:36Copy HTML

 You need some help here Wale.  It is ironic that I can lead you to far better arguments than any you have made thus far.   Arguments that I can defeat easily with data , but still far better arguments than you have made herein.

There are many scientific demonstrations of the evolutionary advantages of altruism


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC393409/

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/276/1654/13

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430087/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC152327/

....many many many more.

This is the tactic of the creationist idiot.  Run off on as many tangents you can find without ever presenting any data to refute the fact of evolution when it is presented to them repeatedly.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #251
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 09:05:41Copy HTML

 Bringing up Francis Collins got me thinking that he could help you resolve this self-imposed dilemma you have.  If evolution is a fact, then it conflicts with your God.

It need not conflict with your belief.  The sooner you accept it is faith and no amount of reasoning with data will change it, the better off you will be.

Read a bit about Francis.

Francis Collins, a medical doctor, is director of the National Human Genome Research Institute and passionate about science. But the self-described Bible-believing Christian is just as passionate about his faith, which he came to after reading C.S. Lewis and seeing how religion sustained his gravely ill patients. Collins recently spoke with Beliefnet about his best-selling book The Language of God.
Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/news/science-religion/2006/08/god-is-not-threatened-by-our-scientific-adventures.aspx#kp2cgxGsXCtvVWJp.99

As someone who's had the privilege of leading the human genome project, I've had the opportunity to study our own DNA instruction book at a level of detail that was never really possible before.

It's also now been possible to compare our DNA with that of many other species. The evidence supporting the idea that all living things are descended from a common ancestor is truly overwhelming.

I would not necessarily wish that to be so, as a Bible-believing Christian. But it is so. It does not serve faith well to try to deny that.

But I have no difficulty putting that together with what I believe as a Christian because I believe that God had a plan to create creatures with whom he could have fellowship, in whom he could inspire [the] moral law, in whom he could infuse the soul, and who he would give free will as a gift for us to make decisions about our own behavior, a gift which we oftentimes utilize to do the wrong thing.

I believe God used the mechanism of evolution to achieve that goal. And while that may seem to us who are limited by this axis of time as a very long, drawn-out process, it wasn't long and drawn-out to God. And it wasn't random to God.

While the precise mechanism of the origin of life on earth remains unknown, once life arose, the process of evolution and natural selection permitted the development of biological diversity and complexity over very long periods of time.

Once evolution got under way no special supernatural intervention was required.

Humans are part of this process, sharing a common ancestor with the great apes.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #252
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 09:07:20Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 I have written several and as well as chapters in textbooks.  One on coral reef restoration and one on Oil Spill Science and Technology.  I have published don't know how many papers in scientific journals on aspects of biology.  Couldn't you tell from how smart I am and this stuff rolls off my fingertips without using Google?

I guess that backfired on you didn't it...Wdoodle?

I am more equipped than any mathematician to discuss evolution.  I can show you hundreds of papers on evolution of altruism and unfortunately your dead mathematician has no response.  How is my background relevant to the data I presented?

Wale is just deflecting from entering the debate.

Many people believe in God Wale.  Recall Dr. Francis Collins, former head of the human genome project.  Big time geneticist and DNA expert.  He was a devout believer in God.  But he also admitted evolution was a fact and required no supernatural interventions.  Many scientists believe in a higher power.  That is not relevant to the acceptance of evolution as fact...it is a fact.

Do you have any evidence to the facts of evolution I have posted? 




accreditations are listed above and as you can see he died of cancer a few years ago, not "some long dead scientist".

YOU stated there is NO reality of God.

EVOLUTION is not a FACT, no matter how much YOU desire it to be. Some atheist scientists are STILL putting forth nonsense to FILL the gaps of science as to our origins, EVOLUTION is a big one. Some other THEORIES,

Where did the ABILITY, or MECHANISM for 'life' 'existence', the universe, or whatever you wish to call it, come from and WHY?

Aczel discusses the mysteries of “emergent” phenomena — when a complex system exhibits a qualitative behavior that cannot be explained in terms of the workings of its individual parts: for example, the emergence of self-replicating life from inanimate molecules or the emergence of consciousness from a collection of connected neurons. He writes, “The inexplicability of such emergent phenomena is the reason why we cannot disprove the idea of some creative power behind everything.”


skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #253
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 09:26:42Copy HTML

 There is no reality of god...as in no proof or evidence of God.  That is why it is called Faith.   That doesn't mean you cannot believe if you wish. Did you just read anything I posted?

Evolution is a fact.  It has nothing to do with desire. We have observed it.  I have posted examples to which you have been unable to refute.

You just keep babbling about a mathematician and God of the Gaps. Not being able to explain some mystery is utterly irrelevant. I already showed you Aczel was incorrect about altruism with factual data.  You babble on.

If you believe evolution is not a fact, now would be the time to post data that says my examples are incorrect.

What the fuck are you waiting for?




"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #254
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:25-04-2018 09:31:08Copy HTML

 Aczel discusses the mysteries of “emergent” phenomena — when a complex system exhibits a qualitative behavior that cannot be explained in terms of the workings of its individual parts: for example, the emergence of self-replicating life from inanimate molecules or the emergence of consciousness from a collection of connected neurons. He writes, “The inexplicability of such emergent phenomena is the reason why we cannot disprove the idea of some creative power behind everything.”

___

see God of the gaps. " I cant explain this ...so it must be God"  We used to think God made rain, then we learned he didn't.  We used to think he made lightning and thunder, then we learned he didn't...disease...then we learned he didn't...complex organisms...then we learned he didn't.    We have since explained neuronal and brain development and have some pretty good evidence of abiogenesis as well.

All your arguments are irrelevant to the fact of evolution, that humans have witnessed repeatedly, published their findings which have been corroborated...and for which you nor anyone else on earth have provided any rebuttal.

I keep asking you for rebuttal.  The truth is there is none, which is why you have provided none....so you try to stick to the land of tangents, quote mining, and God of the Gaps.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #255
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:26-04-2018 12:20:15Copy HTML

Something for Tom and Wale to tell us it is crap and must be ignored.

The train arrives in Rational City to talk to Dr. Stephen Law, who disproves God! Now that’s rational! Also, the final chapter of the circumcision story, Missing Pieces. Sir Hugo unveils his new anti-religious, dirty limerick segment, and Jo-Jo has the news as always….

Psychological Emancipation Railway
atheistunderground.com
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #256
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:26-04-2018 02:44:09Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 Aczel discusses the mysteries of “emergent” phenomena — when a complex system exhibits a qualitative behavior that cannot be explained in terms of the workings of its individual parts: for example, the emergence of self-replicating life from inanimate molecules or the emergence of consciousness from a collection of connected neurons. He writes, “The inexplicability of such emergent phenomena is the reason why we cannot disprove the idea of some creative power behind everything.”

___

see God of the gaps. " I cant explain this ...so it must be God"  We used to think God made rain, then we learned he didn't.  We used to think he made lightning and thunder, then we learned he didn't...disease...then we learned he didn't...complex organisms...then we learned he didn't.    We have since explained neuronal and brain development and have some pretty good evidence of abiogenesis as well.

All your arguments are irrelevant to the fact of evolution, that humans have witnessed repeatedly, published their findings which have been corroborated...and for which you nor anyone else on earth have provided any rebuttal.

I keep asking you for rebuttal.  The truth is there is none, which is why you have provided none....so you try to stick to the land of tangents, quote mining, and God of the Gaps.


YOU guys do the same thing and MORE with EVOLUTION, only you claim it has NO GAPS.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #257
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:26-04-2018 02:46:31Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 There is no reality of god...as in no proof or evidence of God.  That is why it is called Faith.   That doesn't mean you cannot believe if you wish. Did you just read anything I posted?

Evolution is a fact.  It has nothing to do with desire. We have observed it.  I have posted examples to which you have been unable to refute.

You just keep babbling about a mathematician and God of the Gaps. Not being able to explain some mystery is utterly irrelevant. I already showed you Aczel was incorrect about altruism with factual data.  You babble on.

If you believe evolution is not a fact, now would be the time to post data that says my examples are incorrect.

What the fuck are you waiting for?





I've shown you enough representation of scientist who counter your position and YET you pronounce every one of them deficient, because YOU pronounce them to be. For each one listed, there are  MANY more not listed who take their positions as well.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #258
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:26-04-2018 02:48:39Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

Something for Tom and Wale to tell us it is crap and must be ignored.

The train arrives in Rational City to talk to Dr. Stephen Law, who disproves God! Now that’s rational! Also, the final chapter of the circumcision story, Missing Pieces. Sir Hugo unveils his new anti-religious, dirty limerick segment, and Jo-Jo has the news as always….


Atheists THINK they disprove God but actually cannot as they cannot answer simple and basic questions from the outset, the BEGINNING, the VERY BEGINNING.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #259
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:26-04-2018 04:28:57Copy HTML

 I've shown you enough representation of scientist who counter your position

___ you have shown me none who counter my position.

Evolution - the change in allele frequencies over time that result in new species.  Is a fact.  I presented direct evidence of our observation of this fact.  You have not countered this, nor has any quote of any scientist you presented countered this.

Evolution, the Theory, as with all Theories in science is the general principles of how the FACT of evolution works. We know a lot about the fact of evolution.  All that we know is the theory.  There will be much added to it over time no doubt, but not that the fact does not occur.

I have shown you that the scientists you presented accept the fact of evolution.  The argument that some believe it is just so improbable...is NOT EVIDENCE.

You are free to finally enter this debate and provide some actual evidence that refutes what I have presented....ACTUAL OBSERVATIONS OF EVOLUTION.

It is now page 9, don't you think it would be a good time to present some actual evidence that refutes the fact of our observations of evolution occurring?

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #260
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:26-04-2018 04:31:07Copy HTML

 I'm not here to disprove God.  I personally don't think you can disprove a belief.  I am here to show you there is no evidence, no science, nothing that refutes the FACT that evolution occurs.  We have observed it and you have not countered those observations with anything, nor has any scientist.

There are a few scientists who refute some of the mechanisms, but almost none with any credentials whatsoever that refute the FACT it occurs.

You are free to present evidence any time you like Wale.  It is page 9.  A good time for you to start don't you think?

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #261
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:26-04-2018 05:06:45Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 I'm not here to disprove God.  I personally don't think you can disprove a belief.  I am here to show you there is no evidence, no science, nothing that refutes the FACT that evolution occurs.  We have observed it and you have not countered those observations with anything, nor has any scientist.

There are a few scientists who refute some of the mechanisms, but almost none with any credentials whatsoever that refute the FACT it occurs.

You are free to present evidence any time you like Wale.  It is page 9.  A good time for you to start don't you think?


When YOU say there is NO reality of God, you are saying there isn't any God. Not the same as saying "you are free to believe in what you believe in".
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #262
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:26-04-2018 06:24:04Copy HTML

 Thank you for attempting to know what I mean more than I do...but it doesn't work that way.  I know what I mean.

There is no reality of God in the sense we have no proof of God in the real world.  You may believe in a God all you like and some sort of God may actually exist, there is just no evidence for it. It cannot be proven or demonstrated either way.

Back to evolution:   Presenting dead scientists who say they find aspects of evolution hard to believe....IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING

I have presented factual observations of actual evolution in the scientific literature. You say they are not facts.

Demonstrate it with evidence.

It is page 9, now would be a good time for you to enter this discussion.


"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #263
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:27-04-2018 12:15:43Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 Thank you for attempting to know what I mean more than I do...but it doesn't work that way.  I know what I mean.

There is no reality of God in the sense we have no proof of God in the real world.  You may believe in a God all you like and some sort of God may actually exist, there is just no evidence for it. It cannot be proven or demonstrated either way.

Back to evolution:   Presenting dead scientists who say they find aspects of evolution hard to believe....IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING

I have presented factual observations of actual evolution in the scientific literature. You say they are not facts.

Demonstrate it with evidence.

It is page 9, now would be a good time for you to enter this discussion.



When many scientists argue the mechanisms, they haven't come then to agreement on the topic.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #264
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:27-04-2018 11:19:12Copy HTML

 You keep repeating the lie.  It wont work.  I argue the mechanisms.  I think epigenetics plays a larger role.  This does not mean we don't agree that evolution is a fact.

You are flailing helplessly here Wale.

You have no clue about any of the science of genetics, biogeography, morphology, or anything related to evolution yet you feel qualified to argue its merits.

I have provided scientific technical demonstrable proof of humans witnessing evolution....making the fact it happens....a fact.  It is a fact.  You have not rebutted any of it.

Page 9.  Don't you think it is time for you to finally enter this discussion and debate the facts I have presented.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #265
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:28-04-2018 12:26:23Copy HTML

I regret it but it is nigh on impossible to argue with an irrational person.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #266
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:28-04-2018 05:31:50Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 You keep repeating the lie.  It wont work.  I argue the mechanisms.  I think epigenetics plays a larger role.  This does not mean we don't agree that evolution is a fact.

You are flailing helplessly here Wale.

You have no clue about any of the science of genetics, biogeography, morphology, or anything related to evolution yet you feel qualified to argue its merits.

I have provided scientific technical demonstrable proof of humans witnessing evolution....making the fact it happens....a fact.  It is a fact.  You have not rebutted any of it.

Page 9.  Don't you think it is time for you to finally enter this discussion and debate the facts I have presented.


No, a repetition of observation of differences of opinions within the scientific community. You've provided those opinions agreeing with your opinion.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #267
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:28-04-2018 05:32:30Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

I regret it but it is nigh on impossible to argue with an irrational person.

Hence the impossibility of arguing with your irrationality.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #268
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:28-04-2018 06:00:36Copy HTML

LOL is laugh out loud while that was an SS which means a silent smirk.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #269
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:28-04-2018 06:03:47Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

LOL is laugh out loud while that was an SS which means a silent smirk.

One day you will be rational and sane.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #270
  • From:USA

Re:Resurrection Sunday

Date Posted:29-04-2018 11:21:15Copy HTML

 Wale is a moron who hasn’t read one thing I’ve posted.  He hasn’t refuted a single scientific citation on actual
Observations of evolution ...,that are fact.  He claims disagreeing about something unrelated to the fact of observations of evolutions means....it is not a fact.  It is like saying I don’t think Einstein’s equation is correct, so gravity is not a fact. He is quite simply, a fucking moron.  An imbecile. A willful idiot.  

As always,  imagine my shock that in nearly 10 pages he has provided no refutation whatsoever to the actual observations of evolution I’ve posted 
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
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