Free Speech
FSA Ticket | Today | Join | Member | Search | Who's On | Help | Sign In | |
FSA > Theology and Spirtuality > This life and the after life Go to subcategory:
Author Content
Tomlapaz
  • From:USA

Date Posted:28-06-2018 03:35:29Copy HTML

The human eye is another structure that stymies evolutionists.  Again, they invoke faith in the unseen - in an absurd way however.

But it is another example of Romans chapter 1

https://answersingenesis.org/human-body/eyes/can-evolution-produce-an-eye-not-a-chance/?utm_source=articlesmedia&utm_medium=email&utm_content=article2header&mc_cid=587edfded2&mc_eid=cab2b47150

If a supercomputer is obviously the product of intelligent design, how much more obviously is the eye a product of intelligent design? And yet, evolutionists are dead certain that the human eye (and everything else in nature) came into being by pure chance and the intrinsic properties of nature! Evolutionists occasionally admit that it is difficult for even them to believe such a thing. Ernst Mayr, for example, has conceded that:

It is a considerable strain on one’s credulity to assume that finely balanced systems such as certain sense organs (the eye of vertebrates, or the bird’s feather) could be improved by random mutations. (Systematics and the Origin of Species, p. 296)

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:02-07-2018 09:22:30Copy HTML

 It doesn't stymie evolutionists at all. There is little about evolution that is "pure chance"

Two lies in the opening statement meant to support the stupidity of the creationist magic story. 

I have explained to you a thousand times that evolution is not about pure chance, yet you lie, you lie, you lie. Its just what the evangelical do to protect their myths.


Tomas' motto:   So much science to ignore, so much time to ignore it all.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/evolution-of-the-eye/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/evolution_of_the_eye.htm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143066/

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:02-07-2018 11:38:55Copy HTML

It clearly stymies you - if all you can do is post a link, without showing one in your link actually refutes a section from the other link.
Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:03-07-2018 11:36:26Copy HTML

Ok, out of curiosity, I went through each of the links - only partially through the 3rd (and the 1st, only so far as one can go without having to sign in).

Thanks for the laugh.  Good grief, the number of times they actually admit to guessing in just what I read alone surprised me.   Maybe somehow it gets better, but not at all looking good.

So if you can provide something that actually refutes what the article is saying, well, then I think you have the start of something. 


Otherwise, your links are a clear illustration of Romans 1.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:03-07-2018 05:43:53Copy HTML

 It clearly stymies you - if all you can do is post a link, without showing one in your link actually refutes a section from the other link.

__________


All you did was post a link.  I'm not stymied.  I've read and understood those links long ago, and much more.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:03-07-2018 05:47:13Copy HTML

 Ok, out of curiosity, I went through each of the links - only partially through the 3rd (and the 1st, only so far as one can go without having to sign in).

_________


Ok, out of curiosity, I went through your posts.  And you offered no refutation whatsoever to anything.  A clear illustration of Romans I.

There are no guesses in the many transitional eye forms that follow geologic history via isochronic dating perfectly. It is what it is is...….each transitional form appearing in the record consistent with the phylogentic tree.

If only you weren't such a moron, we could probably have interesting scientific discussion, but alas, all you can do is say "no it isn't".



"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:04-07-2018 09:24:14Copy HTML

Well, you have not been honest (and others have pointed that out), so that is really what precludes a serious discussion on the science.


And the proof of that?


18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men such as SKW, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
19
because that which is known of God is manifest in Skw and others; for God manifested it unto them.
20
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, [even] his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:
21
because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.
22
Professing themselves to be wise, they like Skw became fools,
23
and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God gave them (folks like Skw) up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves:

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:04-07-2018 10:05:08Copy HTML

 

 
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:07-07-2018 03:19:44Copy HTML

But there is a day of judgment coming -  and if our sins are not covered by the blood of Jesus, we would have to provide our own defense.

And no man can do that.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:07-07-2018 06:31:00Copy HTML

Take your religious threats, Tom, and shove them where the sun does not shine.

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:07-07-2018 06:38:49Copy HTML

Facts are threats?
Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:08-07-2018 12:30:02Copy HTML

What you are calling facts, Tom, are not provable as such.

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:08-07-2018 01:08:35Copy HTML

Oh, they are, unless one hides his head in the sand.
Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:08-07-2018 01:47:11Copy HTML

So prove it, Tom.

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #14
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:08-07-2018 03:03:48Copy HTML

You mean like - prove that the sun and moon exist?

If someone did not believe the moon and the sun did not exist - how would one 'prove' that?



Btw, no one disagreed with the concept that we all fall short of the golden rule.   So there is hope............

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #15
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:08-07-2018 03:42:30Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

You mean like - prove that the sun and moon exist?

If someone did not believe the moon and the sun did not exist - how would one 'prove' that?



Btw, no one disagreed with the concept that we all fall short of the golden rule.   So there is hope............


Well there were a lot of people up until relatively recently who believed the sun circled the earth rather as the moon does.  These people were Christian believers since they got this information from their book of fairy tales (the bible).
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:08-07-2018 04:03:25Copy HTML

Actually, not all believers believed that.   Depended in part on whether they relying on the 'science' of the day, or whatever.   The Bible itself does not actually 'teach' that the sun circled the earth.   No more when an intelligent person tells us what time will be the sunset - is he thus saying the sun actually circles the earth? 


So, going back to Bogus' request:  if Yobbo was to deny the moon and sun exist, how would one prove to Yobbo that they do?

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #17
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:09-11-2018 04:51:04Copy HTML

Image may contain: text

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #18
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:09-11-2018 05:55:52Copy HTML

When evolution skeptics want to attack Darwin's theory, they often point to the human eye. How could something so complex, they argue, have developed through random mutations and natural selection, even over millions of years? If evolution occurs through gradations, the critics say, how could it have created the separate parts of the eye -- the lens, the retina, the pupil, and so forth -- since none of these structures by themselves would make vision possible? In other words, what good is five percent of an eye? As always, creationists do not understand how evolution works. The fact of the matter is that through natural selection, we know different types of eyes have emerged in evolutionary history -- and the human eye isn't even the best one. The range of less complex light sensitive structures that exist in living species today is essentially a roadmap of the gradation of the evolution of the eye in history. The simple light-sensitive spot on the skin of some ancestral creature gave it a survival advantage, allowing it to detect and evade a predator. As the light sensation detected dark and light, it gradually was able to have "vision", detect the shape of the dark object, etc. Every change confers a survival advantage, no matter how slight. Eyes corresponding to every stage in the evolutionary sequence have been found in existing living species. We have directly observed the evolution between them. The existence of this range of less complex light-sensitive structures is in fact solid evidence of eye evolution. This creationist argument has long ago been shown to be nonsense. There is plenty of evidence of eye evolution. Prior to 540 million years ago, no organisms had a light sensitive spot or "eyespot" as we call them. None. The first eyespot appeared in the fossil record about 540 million years ago. During the Cambrian period up to about 480 million years ago, eye spots appeared more frequently as well as actual primitive eyes that had vision. The mollusk eye and what would eventually be a vertebrate eye branched off at this time. Evolution took them two different routes, the mollusk eye turned out better. Many intermediate functioning evolutionary stages of the mollusk eye exist in nature. We have seen skin cells develop sensitivity to light....the beginning of an eyespot evolution. The evidence is all there. We've learned a lot about this since the Institution of Creation Nonsense started spouting off about the impossibility of eye evolution. There is much more now for you to ignore. Here are some scientific articles for you to not read, not understand, and simply wave off as all a bunch of hooey assumptions that you are intellectually unable to discuss. Evolution of the vertebrate eye: opsins, photoreceptors, retina and eye cup https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143066/ Eye evolution and its functional basis https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3632888/ Chance and Necessity in Eye Evolution https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/doi/10.1093/gbe/evr061/587087 New Perspectives on Eye Development and the Evolution of Eyes and Photoreceptors https://academic.oup.com/jhered/article/96/3/171/2187545 The Origin of the Vertebrate Eye https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12052-008-0091-2 Fixational Eye Movements in the Earliest Stage of Metazoan Evolution https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0066442 I could give you about 500 more studies if I didn't know what a waste of time it is with you.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #19
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:09-11-2018 08:59:58Copy HTML

The human eye is another structure that stymies evolutionists. ___ No it does not. Creationists need to start this conversation with a lie because they have nothing else. It doesn't stymie evolutionists at all. Perhaps 30 years ago. As time goes by, the scientific material Tomas must ignore continues to pile up.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #20
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:11-11-2018 12:48:44Copy HTML

Coming from a guy who has trouble with the dictionary, I have to realize he is going to be blind here.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #21
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:11-11-2018 02:04:09Copy HTML

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #22
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:11-11-2018 12:03:57Copy HTML

Coming from a guy who has trouble with the dictionary, I have to realize he is going to be blind here. ——- You think I performed and wrote all those studies that make you look stupid? Poor Tomas has to act like a third grader to avoid the hard truth in the studies I posted. So little time, so much to ignore and make excuses about. PS. The dictionary still says that “majority” also equals the greater number. Skwanderer 2. Tomas 0.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #23
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:13-11-2018 02:47:58Copy HTML

If you or anyone could post a statement used in the US where majority is used to mean 50% or less in American elections, you would have done so.


Hey, any statement in the US, even apart from American elections (which was the topic of the original thread), you would have done so.   How hard can it be if you are right?



So it is because of such (and others have testified to it also), that you are clearly someone not primarily motivated for the truth.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #24
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:13-11-2018 10:40:51Copy HTML

Lol.   This is how you can get out of ever having to defend your stupidity with me isn’t it Tomas? Whenever you are pinned in a corner and too stupid to respond to the science “but but majority”.  You can ignore science forever by simply going back to your little obsession.   ma·jor·i·ty /məˈjôrədē/ noun 1. the greater number: "in the majority of cases all will go smoothly" synonyms: larger part/number, greater part/number, major part, best/better part, main part, ... moreantonyms: minority

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #25
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:16-11-2018 06:56:54Copy HTML

Good grief.  A sentence using the word 'majority' that, if someone read it, they can see it clearly meant it was referring to a number less than 50%.   Got it?


Frankly, it is that kind of sloppiness that puts the question to how well you understand more complicated subjects when they are not in your personal interest.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #26
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:16-11-2018 07:58:38Copy HTML

Imagine my shock that Tomas throws out creationist nonsense and when presented with science....changes the subject and runs from the debate like a frightened child. Same Tomas, different day.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #27
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:16-11-2018 09:21:27Copy HTML

Tomas. You posted a creationist claim an eye can’t evolve. I posted the science that says you are wrong. I didn’t do the studies. All the scientists working on those studies don’t know anything about your twisted obsession with a year old thread. Will you defend your op in the face of the science I posted that says you are wrong? Or will you play games, pretend this was not your op, or obsess over an unrelated year old thread? I could very well be a shady character who misused the Word majority for deceitful purpose......but that is 100% completely ununrelated to the science I posted that says you are wrong. You look like a milktoast waffling fool running away from your own op. What say you; man or milktoast?
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #28
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:16-11-2018 11:56:06Copy HTML

Frankly, not sure what the merit is of discussing your obvious flaws on evolution, when you cannot even handle a dictionary correctly.    Do you really want to discuss Algebra or Calculus when adding/subtracting is a problem for you?


And I know posting that will bother you; but frankly, not sure what else to say?   Love of the truth does not characterize you.   Sin does.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #29
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:17-11-2018 12:07:19Copy HTML

This isn’t about me you lying idiot. The studies I posted that demonstrated your OP is wrong aren’t mine. They are modern scientific studies published recently from reputable institutions in peer reviewed scientific literature. . You are unable to refute anything because you are not only very dishonest, you are idiot, and a willful one at that. Which is why you play childish games to avoid these discussions. You know you are not being honest. If your god is real, you have a lakefront home on his lake of fire.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #30
  • From:USA

Re:Romans Ch 1: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance!

Date Posted:17-11-2018 12:09:47Copy HTML

Again, what is the point about point out issues with those studies to YOU, if you cannot even be honest about the dictionary.


So really, it is about you.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Copyright © 2000-2018 Aimoo Free Forum All rights reserved.