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alaskaone
  • From:USA

Date Posted:09-03-2018 11:43:09Copy HTML

I've been friends with a woman in South Africa since the 1980's so I kind of pay attention to what goes on there.  Her description of S.A. since the end of apartheid differs significantly from the media's depiction which shouldn't surprise anyone, really.

If you haven't heard, last week the government of south africa kicked the Boers off of their land.  The Boers are still being held responsible for any mortgage notes on the land that they no longer own but most of them have said, fuck off.

Generally speaking, when something like this happens, you can start the clock on the famine and genocide.  My friend isn't a farmer but she and her husband have faced relentless abuse and discrimination since the end of apartheid.  They left the country several times because her husband could not get a job because he's white.  They own, for the moment, a house so they returned from Tanzania because they got tired of malaria and they'd hoped things had settled down in S.A. during their absence.

It hasn't.

UPDATE: White South Africans face genocide...

Their eldest daughter got a job as an au pair in North Carolina, she arrives the end of this month so she's safe for a while.  The rest of them are stuck in S.A.  One of the reasons behind my sudden interest in cryptocurrency is the possibility it offers for me to get them money fast hopefully without governmental interference. 

US history in regard to refugees of genocide is spotty, at best, so getting them out of there seems hopeless.  Given that almost no mainstream media coverage of this is happening, it seems unlikely to me that unka sam will give the same warn welcome he's been giving to somalis or syrians and I doubt any of the EU will, either.  Maybe the Dutch but I doubt it.

There has been coverage of the events in S.A.  It's come from independent journalists on Youtube and my admiration for Youtube grows despite it's hostility toward (classical)liberal and conservative views.  It's come a long way from cat videos... if you care to look about.

One of the more prominent independent journalists is Lauren Southern.  Here's some of her work on current events in S.A.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WCLJRVbaMyQ" allowfullscreen="" width="425" height="355" frameborder="0"></iframe>
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #151
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 02:51:13Copy HTML

Reply to jackie_rn

 "property is the foundation of all human rights"

So you caught that too Windies.  Who knew that ownership of stuff is the foundation of human rights.  I've always thought that personal agency and dignity was every person's right, or as wise men once wrote:  life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Seems Alaska interprets it as life, liberty, and the pursuit of property.  
   

You are your own property.

Any attack upon property is therefore an attack upon self-ownership, the foundation of civilized society.  All human rights rest, ultimately, upon self ownership.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
jackie_rn Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #152
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 03:11:06Copy HTML

 "You are your own property."

Yes, that is what is meant by agency.  I see that as separate from 'stuff', like land.  Many see land ownership as inherently immoral and unjustifiable, because the very concept is exclusionary.   
Kim Jong Un “speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same...” Donald J. Trump, 6/15/2018
Windies Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #153
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 03:15:24Copy HTML

Reply to alaskaone

Reply to Windies

Reply to alaskaone

Reply to Windies

Reply to alaskaone 

Sometimes people care only when their friends face injustice and ignore injustice of others. Those people are the epitome of hypocrisy.

Alaska, do you want to revisit your statement thatn property is the foundation of all human rights?


The statement is accurate.

What is there to revisit?

What compensation should blacks whose land was stolen from them get? Any at all?

Depends.  How far back do you want to go?  5 years? 50 years?  500 years?  5,000 years?  And since land stealing is land stealing, are the black tribes that stole from other black tribes going to be paying compensation, too?

Crimes of the past do not justify crimes of the present or future and lovingly treasuring grievances that did not even happen to you doesn't bring about peace, it brings about what we're seeing now, the next genocide.

And given that boers are about 8% of the population and the fact that family farms are not particularly profitable, how much do you think the torturers are going to be able to squeeze out of them?  The farms are in ruins from the drought and government corruption, the land isn't particularly fertile to begin with, it takes a great deal of skill to make it productive.

I note you decline to read or comment on the boer woman who was beaten and raped and managed to kill her attacker.  The government arrested her for murder.  Does that make you happy or does it open your eyes as to what sort of government rules S.A. today?

An evil government is evil due to it's actions or inactions.  If you support that corruption then you are supporting evil and that, in my book, makes you another enemy of humanity.

How far back should it go? What do you think is fair? Do you think the current system is fair and should stay as is? If you say that property is the foundation of human rights, these questions should be easy for you to answer?

If an evil government is evil due to their actions or inactions, how would you describe the people who benefited from the actions or inactions of an evil government?


..... the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned - Stephen Miller Congratulations Stephen Miller- on representing me this morning on the various Sunday morning shows. Great job! - #45
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #154
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 03:17:21Copy HTML

Reply to jackie_rn

 "You are your own property."

Yes, that is what is meant by agency.  I see that as separate from 'stuff', like land.  Many see land ownership as inherently immoral and unjustifiable, because the very concept is exclusionary.   

So are you.  By claiming ownership of yourself you are denying others from access to your body without your permission.



Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
Segovia_del_Prado Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #155
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 03:26:22Copy HTML

 when the Bantu deposed the Khoi and San ---- ? When other north Africans and Muslim hoards came, did they return all the tribal lands?  When your people overthrew the government of the island, whom did they pay for the farms?  History marches on----- but you would like to browse through history and pick this moment or that in time, when someone slighted your kind, and produce it like a bank note to demand payment.

Fuck off.
“The truth is like a lion, you don’t have to defend it. Let it loose, it will defend itself.” St. Augustine
Windies Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #156
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 03:41:30Copy HTML

Reply to Segovia_del_Prado

 when the Bantu deposed the Khoi and San ---- ? When other north Africans and Muslim hoards came, did they return all the tribal lands?  When your people overthrew the government of the island, whom did they pay for the farms?  History marches on----- but you would like to browse through history and pick this moment or that in time, when someone slighted your kind, and produce it like a bank note to demand payment.

Fuck off.

Well then, it's time for someone else to give up the land. History marches on and you people should just accept that it's part and parcel of life and times and conquered people.  
..... the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned - Stephen Miller Congratulations Stephen Miller- on representing me this morning on the various Sunday morning shows. Great job! - #45
Segovia_del_Prado Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #157
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 03:50:12Copy HTML

 and that is a hella lot more just than saying this batch of currant residents have a right to kill that batch of currant residents because four hundred years ago that batch stole from this batch.   Either you want to perpetuate survival of the fittest, and the law of the jungle, or you don't.  Of course, that leaves open the possibility of China, which would LOVE to control Africa will just take it all.  
“The truth is like a lion, you don’t have to defend it. Let it loose, it will defend itself.” St. Augustine
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #158
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 03:51:40Copy HTML

Or, and this is apparently another one of my radical ideas, it could just stop.  Today.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
DC3Cowboy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #159
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 03:53:04Copy HTML

You're wasting your time trying to reason with the unreasonable left, Alaska. 

Logic plays no part in their decision making. It is 100% emotion driven.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. - Thomas Jefferson Molon Labe
Windies Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #160
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 03:54:12Copy HTML

Reply to alaskaone

Or, and this is apparently another one of my radical ideas, it could just stop.  Today.

And leave the lands in the hands of the whites and no compensation for blacks for their loss? Do you think that would lead to peace?
..... the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned - Stephen Miller Congratulations Stephen Miller- on representing me this morning on the various Sunday morning shows. Great job! - #45
jackie_rn Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #161
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 03:59:49Copy HTML

Reply to alaskaone

Reply to jackie_rn

 "You are your own property."

Yes, that is what is meant by agency.  I see that as separate from 'stuff', like land.  Many see land ownership as inherently immoral and unjustifiable, because the very concept is exclusionary.   

So are you.  By claiming ownership of yourself you are denying others from access to your body without your permission.




Brilliant!  You have opened my eyes.  I'm just stuff.  
Kim Jong Un “speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same...” Donald J. Trump, 6/15/2018
DC3Cowboy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #162
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 04:12:30Copy HTML

See?
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. - Thomas Jefferson Molon Labe
Windies Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #163
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 04:13:15Copy HTML

Reply to DC3Cowboy

You're wasting your time trying to reason with the unreasonable left, Alaska. 

Logic plays no part in their decision making. It is 100% emotion driven.

So explain his logic to me DC. He says that property is the foundation of human rights. How are blacks not entitled to those human rights if the argument is that their land should not be returned.
..... the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned - Stephen Miller Congratulations Stephen Miller- on representing me this morning on the various Sunday morning shows. Great job! - #45
DC3Cowboy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #164
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 04:19:57Copy HTML

Reply to Windies

Reply to DC3Cowboy

You're wasting your time trying to reason with the unreasonable left, Alaska. 

Logic plays no part in their decision making. It is 100% emotion driven.

So explain his logic to me DC. He says that property is the foundation of human rights. How are blacks not entitled to those human rights if the argument is that their land should not be returned.

It never belonged to today's blacks. It belonged to people long dead who lost it to other people who are long dead. The rightful owners are those who possess it today. 

The problem here (as always) is government simply ignoring property rights.

That all-powerful government leftist philosophy is always a threat and is also always a threat to us. 
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. - Thomas Jefferson Molon Labe
Windies Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #165
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 04:21:32Copy HTML

Reply to Segovia_del_Prado

 and that is a hella lot more just than saying this batch of currant residents have a right to kill that batch of currant residents because four hundred years ago that batch stole from this batch.   Either you want to perpetuate survival of the fittest, and the law of the jungle, or you don't.  Of course, that leaves open the possibility of China, which would LOVE to control Africa will just take it all.  

Nope, just following your train of thought that lands have always been stolen and this time is no different.....except this time the land is already stolen land.
Now do you think there is a way that this could be resolved that takes everyone's needs - not wants - into consideration? Do you think that it's fair that the majority of land is concentrated into the hands of 8% of the population. Is there a way to redistribute so that it lessens poverty, even if that also lessens wealth?
..... the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned - Stephen Miller Congratulations Stephen Miller- on representing me this morning on the various Sunday morning shows. Great job! - #45
Windies Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #166
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 05:47:06Copy HTML

Reply to DC3Cowboy

Reply to Windies

Reply to DC3Cowboy

You're wasting your time trying to reason with the unreasonable left, Alaska. 

Logic plays no part in their decision making. It is 100% emotion driven.

So explain his logic to me DC. He says that property is the foundation of human rights. How are blacks not entitled to those human rights if the argument is that their land should not be returned.

It never belonged to today's blacks. It belonged to people long dead who lost it to other people who are long dead. The rightful owners are those who possess it today. 

The problem here (as always) is government simply ignoring property rights.

That all-powerful government leftist philosophy is always a threat and is also always a threat to us. 


So family land is not owned by the descendants of people who owned it? Is that what the law says? Do you not think that Jewish people should receive compensation for property stolen from them during the war?

..... the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned - Stephen Miller Congratulations Stephen Miller- on representing me this morning on the various Sunday morning shows. Great job! - #45
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #167
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 06:49:26Copy HTML

Look, it's evident that the white rightwingers on this board will accept nothing less than us saying that blacks deserve nothing in South Africa, and even asking, never mind taking, is totally out of line. They should be grateful, after all, that whites came to their country uninvited, murdered, raped, enslaved and exploited them. And how ungrateful are they now to think they have a right to take back what was stolen from them!
~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
Segovia_del_Prado Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #168
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 06:55:07Copy HTML

 then, they should just do exactly as Hugo Chavez did, nationalize everything, let the white settlers leave, and we should invest all those millions in foreign aid in helping to resettle them.  Then let the new owners of the farms just farm to their hearts content, or rather till they starve to death.
“The truth is like a lion, you don’t have to defend it. Let it loose, it will defend itself.” St. Augustine
Windies Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #169
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 06:57:19Copy HTML

Reply to Segovia_del_Prado

 then, they should just do exactly as Hugo Chavez did, nationalize everything, let the white settlers leave, and we should invest all those millions in foreign aid in helping to resettle them.  Then let the new owners of the farms just farm to their hearts content, or rather till they starve to death.

so it's all or nothing? there is no way that the white farm owners can share what they have - and what they got for no money at all -  with the people they got the land from?
Do you not think that there are black farm owners who are successful in SA, Segovia? 

I would ask you where you get your information from, but i remember that you don't rely on facts when you post. 
..... the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned - Stephen Miller Congratulations Stephen Miller- on representing me this morning on the various Sunday morning shows. Great job! - #45
katie5445 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #170
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 06:57:34Copy HTML

Did you think the same on the Native Americans?
jackie_rn Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #171
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 07:01:16Copy HTML

 So family land is not owned by the descendants of people who owned it? Is that what the law says? Do you not think that Jewish people should receive compensation for property stolen from them during the war?    (Windies)

---------------------------------------------------

Now that could be an interesting turn in the conversation.  I believe that most of our right wing and libertarian-right are (yes Alaska, you're no liberal, "classic" or regular) and would say if asked that they are unabashed supporters of the state of Israel and their 'right' to exist specifically in that location. (note: that is a different argument).  But in the creation of that state they supplanted Palestinians and other Arabs and expropriated their properties, and continue to do so to this day.  Palestine is a virtual concentration camp and their land (what is left to them) is occupied territory with encroaching 'settlements' protected by armed troops.

Who is the villain here, Arabs or Jews?  Who took whose property without compensation?  
Kim Jong Un “speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same...” Donald J. Trump, 6/15/2018
Segovia_del_Prado Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #172
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 07:09:03Copy HTML

 you should take it up with Trin, because the Arabs drove the Jews out of Israel in the diaspora, so you should be all in favor of the Jews just taking it all back.  As for the present day Israel---- that land was allotted to them by the Balfour decision, they got a tiny sliver of land, and the Arabs got the entire rest of the middle east.  Unfortunately, nearly all wasn't enough for them, was it?
“The truth is like a lion, you don’t have to defend it. Let it loose, it will defend itself.” St. Augustine
jackie_rn Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #173
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:13-03-2018 07:13:31Copy HTML

 The topic is property rights, Segovia.  Save your rants for someone who cares.
Kim Jong Un “speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same...” Donald J. Trump, 6/15/2018
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #174
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:14-03-2018 02:37:22Copy HTML

Reply to jackie_rn

Reply to alaskaone

Reply to jackie_rn

 "You are your own property."

Yes, that is what is meant by agency.  I see that as separate from 'stuff', like land.  Many see land ownership as inherently immoral and unjustifiable, because the very concept is exclusionary.   

So are you.  By claiming ownership of yourself you are denying others from access to your body without your permission.




Brilliant!  You have opened my eyes.  I'm just stuff.  

Yes, you are and so am I and everyone else.

By taking this approach, you dodge theological or governmental arguments.  You belong to yourself, no other.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #175
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:14-03-2018 02:54:40Copy HTML

Whites make up about 8% of the population of south africa.  The south african government required that businesses reflect that proportion and so many whites were thrown out of work.

Well, you might say that's fair.  It's how the racists want things here, after all.  The thing is, the folks who lost their jobs were often educated and skilled... meaning, not easily replaced.  All of S.A. suffered the consequences and corruption increased dramatically because the jobs that educated and skilled people do are not always middle management make work.  We're talking physicians, engineers, electricians, carpenters, plumbers, etc., etc., etc.

Well, so what, you may say.  A little suffering in pursuit of the greater good is acceptable.  Well, maybe.

It occurred to me to wonder how much property in S.A. is owned by whites.  Turns out it's not a simple thing to figure out.

Who owns SA's land? | News24

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/who-owns-sas-land-20171028

Do 40,000 whites own 80% of SA? The claim is incorrect - Africa Check

https://africacheck.org/reports/do-40000-whites-own-80-of-sa-the-claim-is-incorrect/

The truth about land and home ownership in South Africa

https://businesstech.co.za › News › Wealth

Home ownership in SA: Facts tell different story | Fin24

https://www.fin24.com/.../kill-dangerous-property-nationalisation-slogans-with-facts-e...

land ownership - Plaas

www.plaas.org.za/sites/default/files/publications.../No1%20Fact%20check%20web.pdf

land audit - AgriSA

https://www.agrisa.co.za/wp-content/.../2017/.../AgriSA_Land-Audit_November-2017...

There is an observation by a guy named Derek Price.  "The square root of the number of people in a domain do 50% of the work."

For example: 
  • 10 employees, 3 of them do 1/2 the work
  • 100 employees, 10 of them do 1/2 the work
  • 10,000 employees 100 of them do 1/2 the work

This was mainly addressing businesses and bureaucracies but it appears to hold true across the general population.  You can see it at work here in this forum... the bulk of the posts are made by a small number of people.

By attacking working farmers and businesses, S.A. is targeting a small group of people who are demonstrably productive.  The loss of those people will have impacts far greater than their small numbers would suggest.


Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
jackie_rn Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #176
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:14-03-2018 03:07:02Copy HTML

What rot, Alaska.      Of course one 'owns' oneself.   In truth,  you are your only possession and as such you set your own boundaries which are only violated criminally.   You come into this world with just you, and you  leave the same way no matter how much land (or other property) you may claim to own.  You are not your stuff.    It's an illusion.   
Kim Jong Un “speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same...” Donald J. Trump, 6/15/2018
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #177
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:14-03-2018 03:17:01Copy HTML

Reply to jackie_rn

What rot, Alaska.      Of course one 'owns' oneself.   In truth,  you are your only possession and as such you set your own boundaries which are only violated criminally.   You come into this world with just you, and you  leave the same way no matter how much land (or other property) you may claim to own.  You are not your stuff.    It's an illusion.   

You know, we're actually saying the same thing yet you choose to pretend we're not.  Is your mind so full of contrariness and bile that you cannot accept even the most basic of facts if it is presented to you by anyone other than your own tribe?




Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
mickeyrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #178
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:14-03-2018 04:36:57Copy HTML

Sorry, but if you owned your own body, then you could not be drafted for war, and throughout history human societies have ALWAYS had the right to draft individuals for defense. If we CHOOSE today to have a volunteer army, great, that's fine. But if push comes to shove, and you don't think you can't be conscripted, you'd be sadly mistaken.

We are a eusocial species, and that is that. We no more own our own bodies than the ant owns hers. Now, I get that we are sentient and have an individual identity, and that individuality conflicts with our social being. And it may be that that inherent contradiction proves unable to sustain itself, and we go the way of dino and dodo. But so long as we are around, the eusocial nature always trumps the individual, that is not ideology, or theory, but rather simple scientific reality.

We don't own our bodies--the Great Collective does.
~Oh, I wish it would rain.~ --The Temptations
alaskaone Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #179
  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:14-03-2018 05:53:55Copy HTML

No.
Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
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  • From:USA

Re:South Africa

Date Posted:14-03-2018 06:02:50Copy HTML

In regard to my claim that Lauren Southern was detained and ultimately banned from the UK for her work in South Africa, further information has come to light.  She was released after 6 hours and subsequently interviewed by members of the alternative media and has clarified what happened.

In short, she was detained as a terrorist and banned from the UK for blasphemy against allah.

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Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies. The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve.” ― H.L. Mencken
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