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Yobbo
  • From:New_zealand

Date Posted:13-12-2017 02:07:38Copy HTML

In light of some Exodus talk, and some Christian commenters here defending its historicity, let’s look at the utter ridiculousness of the accounts found in the Bible. Here are some notes I use for my God on Trial talk.

The movement of the enslaved Hebrews out of Egypt with Moses (and Aaron) as their figureheads, and the plagues and resulting mayhem caused by both the plagues (including the Passover) and a crashing sea destroying an army, is well documented in the Bible.

My goal with this post is to show how this account, now part of our cultural baggage and memory, does not warrant being ring-fenced from critical analysis and lack of belief. It IS ridiculous, and warrants ridicule when seriously entertained as a reliable truth claim.

Let me set out the events of the Exodus account, as well as writing in red why I think the claim is entirely improbable:

  • Jacob and his sons and their families moved to Egypt. They numbered 70. Remember this number! Jacob was father of Joseph (sold into slavery to Egypt and became second in command).
  • The “sons of Israel were fruitful and increased greatly, and multiplied, and became exceedingly numerous, so that the land was filled with them” – they started to populate Egypt with “Israelites”. [Even though that term is an anachronism since the nation did not exist yet]
  • A new Pharaoh took up office and did not know Joseph (his brothers and all). [Is it likely that he would have NO knowledge of the second in command of his own country who single-handedly saved them from famine and who famously translated dreams as prophecies?]
  • He saw all of these Israelites and got worried. Seemingly in one generation or so, they were THAT numerous that he said: “Behold, the people of the sons of Israel are more and mightier than we. Come, let us deal wisely with them, or else they will multiply and in the event of war, they will also join themselves to those who hate us, and fight against us and depart from the land.” [How quickly must they have reproduced? Something to which I will return later.]
  • Thus the Egyptians enslaved all of these Israelites who were already numerous. Just like that. [How could you enslave an entire population of people who were already a threat to national security like that? There is absolutely no archaeological evidence or otherwise for such an enslavement. This biblical claim is the only evidence for such a huge event and its continued happening.]
  • The Pharaoh dictated that all firstborn Hebrew children should be killed and thrown in the Nile. [Controlling populations would mean that actually killing off females is more sensible and effective!]
  • Moses is born and for 8 months his mother conceals him before sending him down the river for the Pharaoh’s daughter to find him and bring him up in secret. [This part of the Bible was written when the Israelites were in Babylonian Exile and the probability is that they stile stories off their captors and surrounding cultures. This story is a re-telling of the earlier birth story of King Sargon of Akkad, a Sumerian king who was the illegitimate son of a priestess. She brought him forth in secret and placed him in a basket of reeds on the river. He was found by Akki the irrigator who raised him as his own son. This is defended by the mention of a pitch basket in both stories – pitch was not available in Egypt at the time of Moses, but was in Sumeria. Also similar to Osiris’ birth.]
  • Moses murders a man and runs away; talks to a burning bush; has his son’s foreskin cut off and touched to his feet or genitals – this is because God was going to kill Moses and his wife suddenly cuts off their son’s foreskin and touches it to his feet and thus saves Moses. [This story is no doubt weirder when read as an adult. Does it sound like the actions of an all-loving and powerful God?]
  • Moses returns to Egypt and does some magic tricks (taught to him by a bush), and with the help of his much better public speaker brother Aaron, tells the Pharaoh to let his people go. [This includes the Pharaoh’s magicians matching every magic trick for a time. Thus pagans could actually do magic, according to the Bible – unless God just made them able to do this in order to set up the whole mess.]
  • God hardens Pharaoh’s heart. [The only way to understand this claim is 1) The Pharaoh would not have said no, would have said yes, and so God changes his mind so that he can then punish all of Egypt for the Pharaoh’s wicked denial; or 2) God was not sure whether Pharaoh would say yes or no, so God makes sure of him saying no. Therefore, God is not omniscient. God is either evil or not omniscient and evil. He sets up the whole situation SO THAT he could punish Egypt.]
  • All the plagues come:
    • The Nile turns to blood
    • Frogs
    • Gnats or lice
    • Flies
    • Diseased livestock
    • Boils on man and beast
    • Thunder and hail
    • Locusts
    • Darkness
    • Death of the firstborn of all people and beasts
  • [These plagues are not the work of an all-loving God, especially when see as being a consequence of something God made happen. This punishes not just the entire nation of a country, many who would not even have know who Moses was, as well as every head of livestock. What have THEY done to deserve this??]
  • The Israelites mark their own doors as a symbol to the angels of death to Passover their houses so that only Egyptian firstborns die. [God is obviously not omniscient since he does not know where certain people live, and needs symbols so as not to accidentally kill the wrong people.]
  • Pharaoh allows Moses to get out of Egypt quickly. [Evidence of the Pharaoh exercising his own will, freely.]
  • This is the little know, oft swept-over event. God softens the Egyptians to the Israelites so that his chosen ones can plunder and loot the Egyptian families – Now the sons of Israel had done according to the word of Moses, for they had requested from the Egyptians articles of silver and articles of gold, and clothing; and the Lord had given the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they let them have their request. Thus they plundered the Egyptians. [Holy Cow! As if the 10 plagues aren’t enough, God again messes with free will and allows the Egyptians to have all their possessions nicked!]
  • 430 years since the day they came to Egypt, the Hebrews / Israelites break free and run off. All 600,000 men armed for battle. And on top of that women, children and livestock. [Remember, 70 people originally have now come to probably something near 2 million. This birth rate is pretty much impossible in any realistic sense. This is a mass exodus. If there was this many of them, how could they not overthrow their captors anyway?]
  • They took Joseph’s bones with them. [They had time to do some grave-robbing but somehow did not have time to leaven some bread. Go figure.]
  • Whilst the Israelites are in the desert, God hardens the Pharaoh’s heart AGAIN, so that he chases them with his army. [Free will again foiled with huge consequences. God has again set up a scenario where thousands upon thousands would end up dying, not because Pharaoh was bad, but because God MADE him bad, or choose in such a way.]
  • The Pharaoh’s army is sent against him. In capturing or killing 2 million people, this army has to be massive. They get destroyed by the sea (Red or Reed). [There is no evidence of this in Egyptian artwork, archaeology or anything. Nothing at all.]
  • Some 2 million people are able to wander around the desert for 40 years without finding their way out, and without starving or dying of thirst. [Er, wow. Ok, so not only are these people the worst geographers of all time, but they can also survive amazingly in the desert. I suppose they had manna… Not only this, but there is absolutely no archaeological evidence for this happening. To compound matters for historicity, there is archaeological evidence for contemporary Bedouin tribes. So nothing from 2 million itinerant travellers, and yet evidence of small tribes in tents… If you lined up all of the people in single file, they would stretch the length of the desert…]
  • They came out of the Sinai Peninsula to take over cities and take their homeland away from the Canaanites. Which was nice. [Little to absolutely no evidence of this.]

As you can see from my comments, the probability that this actually happened as described, or even at all, is so remotely small as to be laughable.


Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/tippling/2017/12/11/story-exodus-egypt-exceedingly-ridiculous/#fmiHpSLiCl0Kt9DK.99
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:05-04-2018 08:39:10Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

In light of some Exodus talk, and some Christian commenters here defending its historicity, let’s look at the utter ridiculousness of the accounts found in the Bible. Here are some notes I use for my God on Trial talk.

The movement of the enslaved Hebrews out of Egypt with Moses (and Aaron) as their figureheads, and the plagues and resulting mayhem caused by both the plagues (including the Passover) and a crashing sea destroying an army, is well documented in the Bible.

My goal with this post is to show how this account, now part of our cultural baggage and memory, does not warrant being ring-fenced from critical analysis and lack of belief. It IS ridiculous, and warrants ridicule when seriously entertained as a reliable truth claim.

Let me set out the events of the Exodus account, as well as writing in red why I think the claim is entirely improbable:

  • Jacob and his sons and their families moved to Egypt. They numbered 70. Remember this number! Jacob was father of Joseph (sold into slavery to Egypt and became second in command).
  • The “sons of Israel were fruitful and increased greatly, and multiplied, and became exceedingly numerous, so that the land was filled with them” – they started to populate Egypt with “Israelites”. [Even though that term is an anachronism since the nation did not exist yet]
  • A new Pharaoh took up office and did not know Joseph (his brothers and all). [Is it likely that he would have NO knowledge of the second in command of his own country who single-handedly saved them from famine and who famously translated dreams as prophecies?]
  • He saw all of these Israelites and got worried. Seemingly in one generation or so, they were THAT numerous that he said: “Behold, the people of the sons of Israel are more and mightier than we. Come, let us deal wisely with them, or else they will multiply and in the event of war, they will also join themselves to those who hate us, and fight against us and depart from the land.” [How quickly must they have reproduced? Something to which I will return later.]
  • Thus the Egyptians enslaved all of these Israelites who were already numerous. Just like that. [How could you enslave an entire population of people who were already a threat to national security like that? There is absolutely no archaeological evidence or otherwise for such an enslavement. This biblical claim is the only evidence for such a huge event and its continued happening.]
  • The Pharaoh dictated that all firstborn Hebrew children should be killed and thrown in the Nile. [Controlling populations would mean that actually killing off females is more sensible and effective!]
  • Moses is born and for 8 months his mother conceals him before sending him down the river for the Pharaoh’s daughter to find him and bring him up in secret. [This part of the Bible was written when the Israelites were in Babylonian Exile and the probability is that they stile stories off their captors and surrounding cultures. This story is a re-telling of the earlier birth story of King Sargon of Akkad, a Sumerian king who was the illegitimate son of a priestess. She brought him forth in secret and placed him in a basket of reeds on the river. He was found by Akki the irrigator who raised him as his own son. This is defended by the mention of a pitch basket in both stories – pitch was not available in Egypt at the time of Moses, but was in Sumeria. Also similar to Osiris’ birth.]
  • Moses murders a man and runs away; talks to a burning bush; has his son’s foreskin cut off and touched to his feet or genitals – this is because God was going to kill Moses and his wife suddenly cuts off their son’s foreskin and touches it to his feet and thus saves Moses. [This story is no doubt weirder when read as an adult. Does it sound like the actions of an all-loving and powerful God?]
  • Moses returns to Egypt and does some magic tricks (taught to him by a bush), and with the help of his much better public speaker brother Aaron, tells the Pharaoh to let his people go. [This includes the Pharaoh’s magicians matching every magic trick for a time. Thus pagans could actually do magic, according to the Bible – unless God just made them able to do this in order to set up the whole mess.]
  • God hardens Pharaoh’s heart. [The only way to understand this claim is 1) The Pharaoh would not have said no, would have said yes, and so God changes his mind so that he can then punish all of Egypt for the Pharaoh’s wicked denial; or 2) God was not sure whether Pharaoh would say yes or no, so God makes sure of him saying no. Therefore, God is not omniscient. God is either evil or not omniscient and evil. He sets up the whole situation SO THAT he could punish Egypt.]
  • All the plagues come:
    • The Nile turns to blood
    • Frogs
    • Gnats or lice
    • Flies
    • Diseased livestock
    • Boils on man and beast
    • Thunder and hail
    • Locusts
    • Darkness
    • Death of the firstborn of all people and beasts
  • [These plagues are not the work of an all-loving God, especially when see as being a consequence of something God made happen. This punishes not just the entire nation of a country, many who would not even have know who Moses was, as well as every head of livestock. What have THEY done to deserve this??]
  • The Israelites mark their own doors as a symbol to the angels of death to Passover their houses so that only Egyptian firstborns die. [God is obviously not omniscient since he does not know where certain people live, and needs symbols so as not to accidentally kill the wrong people.]
  • Pharaoh allows Moses to get out of Egypt quickly. [Evidence of the Pharaoh exercising his own will, freely.]
  • This is the little know, oft swept-over event. God softens the Egyptians to the Israelites so that his chosen ones can plunder and loot the Egyptian families – Now the sons of Israel had done according to the word of Moses, for they had requested from the Egyptians articles of silver and articles of gold, and clothing; and the Lord had given the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they let them have their request. Thus they plundered the Egyptians. [Holy Cow! As if the 10 plagues aren’t enough, God again messes with free will and allows the Egyptians to have all their possessions nicked!]
  • 430 years since the day they came to Egypt, the Hebrews / Israelites break free and run off. All 600,000 men armed for battle. And on top of that women, children and livestock. [Remember, 70 people originally have now come to probably something near 2 million. This birth rate is pretty much impossible in any realistic sense. This is a mass exodus. If there was this many of them, how could they not overthrow their captors anyway?]
  • They took Joseph’s bones with them. [They had time to do some grave-robbing but somehow did not have time to leaven some bread. Go figure.]
  • Whilst the Israelites are in the desert, God hardens the Pharaoh’s heart AGAIN, so that he chases them with his army. [Free will again foiled with huge consequences. God has again set up a scenario where thousands upon thousands would end up dying, not because Pharaoh was bad, but because God MADE him bad, or choose in such a way.]
  • The Pharaoh’s army is sent against him. In capturing or killing 2 million people, this army has to be massive. They get destroyed by the sea (Red or Reed). [There is no evidence of this in Egyptian artwork, archaeology or anything. Nothing at all.]
  • Some 2 million people are able to wander around the desert for 40 years without finding their way out, and without starving or dying of thirst. [Er, wow. Ok, so not only are these people the worst geographers of all time, but they can also survive amazingly in the desert. I suppose they had manna… Not only this, but there is absolutely no archaeological evidence for this happening. To compound matters for historicity, there is archaeological evidence for contemporary Bedouin tribes. So nothing from 2 million itinerant travellers, and yet evidence of small tribes in tents… If you lined up all of the people in single file, they would stretch the length of the desert…]
  • They came out of the Sinai Peninsula to take over cities and take their homeland away from the Canaanites. Which was nice. [Little to absolutely no evidence of this.]

As you can see from my comments, the probability that this actually happened as described, or even at all, is so remotely small as to be laughable.


Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/tippling/2017/12/11/story-exodus-egypt-exceedingly-ridiculous/#fmiHpSLiCl0Kt9DK.99

All this proves is that you can copy and paste from discredited sources.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:05-04-2018 08:58:09Copy HTML

 All this proves is you can call a source discredited without evidence.

Try to debate each point rather than just yell "fake news" 

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:07-04-2018 03:24:02Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 All this proves is you can call a source discredited without evidence.

Try to debate each point rather than just yell "fake news" 


Won't debate a document dump AND what is it that establishes credibility with all you've sourced, other than to agree with your predetermined outcome?
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
  • From:New_zealand

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:07-04-2018 07:24:56Copy HTML

So, you have no rebuttal of these points.

How surprising!

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:07-04-2018 10:38:45Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

So, you have no rebuttal of these points.

How surprising!


I have rebuttals BUT not to a DOCUMENT dump. Why don't YOU state a point or two you want answered at a time BECAUSE each point may take a bit of writing and I'm not doing a thesis on a web site.

What point would you like to address FIRST?

skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:08-04-2018 04:26:21Copy HTML

 You've overwhelmed wale Yobbo.  They can only process one point at time.  Must post each question separately.  LOL
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:08-04-2018 09:09:28Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 You've overwhelmed wale Yobbo.  They can only process one point at time.  Must post each question separately.  LOL

No, unlike yourself , I don't live on a message board and do OTHER things with the computer. Again YOU make the most absurd of assumptions and then conclude as if your unsubstantiated assumptions are correct.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:12-04-2018 09:28:45Copy HTML

 
Won't debate a document dump AND what is it that establishes credibility with all you've sourced, other than to agree with your predetermined outcome?

No, unlike yourself , I don't live on a message board and do OTHER things with the computer. Again YOU make the most absurd of assumptions and then conclude as if your unsubstantiated assumptions are correct.

___


Nothing establishes credibility....which is why I asked you to respond to each point with refutation as opposed to simply typing "fake news". 

If you knew me as other members do, you would know I hardly live in a message board and travel all over the world, often disappearing for weeks at a time.  Plus I use my phone so I can actually do this stuff any time.

The irony of you claiming I make absurd assumptions and assume they are true...without showing on me untrue or absurd assumption. As a scientist, I provide evidence, usually in the form scientific study.

Seriously Wale, if you have any smart friends, I strongly suggest you ask them for help.



"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:12-04-2018 09:32:24Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 
Won't debate a document dump AND what is it that establishes credibility with all you've sourced, other than to agree with your predetermined outcome?

No, unlike yourself , I don't live on a message board and do OTHER things with the computer. Again YOU make the most absurd of assumptions and then conclude as if your unsubstantiated assumptions are correct.

___


Nothing establishes credibility....which is why I asked you to respond to each point with refutation as opposed to simply typing "fake news". 

If you knew me as other members do, you would know I hardly live in a message board and travel all over the world, often disappearing for weeks at a time.  Plus I use my phone so I can actually do this stuff any time.

The irony of you claiming I make absurd assumptions and assume they are true...without showing on me untrue or absurd assumption. As a scientist, I provide evidence, usually in the form scientific study.

Seriously Wale, if you have any smart friends, I strongly suggest you ask them for help.




No need to, your presentations are sufficient enough to demonstrate flimsiness.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:12-04-2018 09:42:59Copy HTML

 Understood.  You cannot list any assumptions I made that were unsupported, or any statements I made that I did not provide evidence. And....You cannot refute them. 

I already knew that.

Embarrassing for you.


"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:12-04-2018 09:45:12Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 Understood.  You cannot list any assumptions I made that were unsupported, or any statements I made that I did not provide evidence. And....You cannot refute them. 

I already knew that.

Embarrassing for you.



Already done so, you just can't accept them.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:12-04-2018 09:56:57Copy HTML

 You have done no such thing.  Please repost if you believe you have.

You keep repeating that scientists say all things must have beginning and end.  I have shown that to be false. Patently and absurdly false.

You say there is evidence of a global flood.  I have shown that to be false.  I am happy to show more.

You said evolution is unproven.  I have shown that to be false.  We have directly observed it and I presented many scientific articles that present those data.

You are not armed to handle this discussion of science wale.  Probably a good idea that you refuse to respond, even if dishonest.



"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:12-04-2018 11:39:06Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 You have done no such thing.  Please repost if you believe you have.

You keep repeating that scientists say all things must have beginning and end.  I have shown that to be false. Patently and absurdly false.

You say there is evidence of a global flood.  I have shown that to be false.  I am happy to show more.

You said evolution is unproven.  I have shown that to be false.  We have directly observed it and I presented many scientific articles that present those data.

You are not armed to handle this discussion of science wale.  Probably a good idea that you refuse to respond, even if dishonest.




Refusal on your part to accept reality is not the same as one not having done so.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #14
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:13-04-2018 12:52:15Copy HTML

 Look at the idiot declaring themselves the winner.  Another hypocrisy meter explodes.

I understand you are not intellectually capable of supporting your position.  I knew that long ago. 

I have demonstrated you were wrong in all your claims about evolution and what scientists say about beginning or end. 

Demonstrated with fact....and scientific law.

And I have shown you to be a liar.

Not a very good start in here Wale.  I see you getting your ass kicked by Mickey in the political board as well. 

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #15
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:13-04-2018 09:12:44Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 Look at the idiot declaring themselves the winner.  Another hypocrisy meter explodes.

I understand you are not intellectually capable of supporting your position.  I knew that long ago. 

I have demonstrated you were wrong in all your claims about evolution and what scientists say about beginning or end. 

Demonstrated with fact....and scientific law.

And I have shown you to be a liar.

Not a very good start in here Wale.  I see you getting your ass kicked by Mickey in the political board as well. 


"Because I the GREAT and Powerful OZskdander have spoken!!"

Mickey is no where NEAR as you say or badly perceive.

skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:13-04-2018 10:08:53Copy HTML

 Try that again when you calm down and figure out how to construct a sentence.

Imagine my shock that you still have been unable to produce a single piece of evidence to refute my position or support your position.

Keep on "crying and screaming" wale.  It helps your argument immensely....said no one ever.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #17
  • From:New_zealand

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:12-05-2018 07:15:52Copy HTML

Wale, try reading Israel Finkelstein's book "The Bible Unearthed".

Or you could address this single point:


Moses is born and for 8 months his mother conceals him before sending him down the river for the Pharaoh’s daughter to find him and bring him up in secret.  [This part of the Bible was written when the Israelites were in Babylonian Exile and the probability is that they style stories off their captors and surrounding cultures. This story is a re-telling of the earlier birth story of King Sargon of Akkad, a Sumerian king who was the illegitimate son of a priestess. She brought him forth in secret and placed him in a basket of reeds on the river. He was found by Akki the irrigator who raised him as his own son. This is defended by the mention of a pitch basket in both stories – pitch was not available in Egypt at the time of Moses, but was in Sumeria. Also similar to Osiris’ birth.]
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #18
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:12-05-2018 10:20:57Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 Look at the idiot declaring themselves the winner.  Another hypocrisy meter explodes.

I understand you are not intellectually capable of supporting your position.  I knew that long ago. 

I have demonstrated you were wrong in all your claims about evolution and what scientists say about beginning or end. 

Demonstrated with fact....and scientific law.

And I have shown you to be a liar.

Not a very good start in here Wale.  I see you getting your ass kicked by Mickey in the political board as well. 

Firstly, Mickey is kicking no one, except to empty leftist minds.

YOU the self proclaimed superior scientist dismiss the list outright, but that is only representative of many more who , in your thinking, need to be convinced OR corrected . Since you proclaim yourself as a richly accredited scientist and self proclaim yourself an intellectual then YOU are the man most qualified to bring unity to the scientific community. venture out and publically "school" these other scientists who do NOT agree with you or evolution and settle the matter WITHIN the scientific circles and THEN come back and tell us how successful you were and WHY. Surely a person with your self proclaimed ability and knowledge can handle that task very easily and perhaps then hold a public conference to announce to the world your achievement. Hey Trump is talking to North Korea, who would have thought? Surely you and the skill and knowledge level you repeatedly tell us YOU have over all others should be able to handle that with no problem.

wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #19
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:12-05-2018 10:22:01Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

Wale, try reading Israel Finkelstein's book "The Bible Unearthed".

Or you could address this single point:


Moses is born and for 8 months his mother conceals him before sending him down the river for the Pharaoh’s daughter to find him and bring him up in secret.  [This part of the Bible was written when the Israelites were in Babylonian Exile and the probability is that they style stories off their captors and surrounding cultures. This story is a re-telling of the earlier birth story of King Sargon of Akkad, a Sumerian king who was the illegitimate son of a priestess. She brought him forth in secret and placed him in a basket of reeds on the river. He was found by Akki the irrigator who raised him as his own son. This is defended by the mention of a pitch basket in both stories – pitch was not available in Egypt at the time of Moses, but was in Sumeria. Also similar to Osiris’ birth.]

YOU have no original thoughts. Another copy and paste job from questionable sources.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #20
  • From:New_zealand

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:13-05-2018 03:42:32Copy HTML

No, I produce evidence which agrees with what I think. 
You can't do that except stuff from the bible or similar which doesn't address the issues, simply makes assertions which is essentially a load of crap.

I'm pressed for time but I will give you more of my thoughts on my previous post.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #21
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:14-05-2018 12:57:41Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

No, I produce evidence which agrees with what I think. 
You can't do that except stuff from the bible or similar which doesn't address the issues, simply makes assertions which is essentially a load of crap.

I'm pressed for time but I will give you more of my thoughts on my previous post.


You have NO original OR correct thoughts and your posts continually verify that.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #22
  • From:New_zealand

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:15-05-2018 12:30:14Copy HTML

Wale, just because you assert something is a fact does not mean that it is.
So, why don't you address the facts in the following, facts that archaeology and other science agree?


Moses is born and for 8 months his mother conceals him before sending him down the river for the Pharaoh’s daughter to find him and bring him up in secret.  [This part of the Bible was written when the Israelites were in Babylonian Exile and the probability is that they style stories off their captors and surrounding cultures. This story is a re-telling of the earlier birth story of King Sargon of Akkad, a Sumerian king who was the illegitimate son of a priestess. She brought him forth in secret and placed him in a basket of reeds on the river. He was found by Akki the irrigator who raised him as his own son. This is defended by the mention of a pitch basket in both stories – pitch was not available in Egypt at the time of Moses, but was in Sumeria. Also similar to Osiris’ birth.]
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #23
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:15-05-2018 12:38:10Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

Wale, just because you assert something is a fact does not mean that it is.
So, why don't you address the facts in the following, facts that archaeology and other science agree?


Moses is born and for 8 months his mother conceals him before sending him down the river for the Pharaoh’s daughter to find him and bring him up in secret.  [This part of the Bible was written when the Israelites were in Babylonian Exile and the probability is that they style stories off their captors and surrounding cultures. This story is a re-telling of the earlier birth story of King Sargon of Akkad, a Sumerian king who was the illegitimate son of a priestess. She brought him forth in secret and placed him in a basket of reeds on the river. He was found by Akki the irrigator who raised him as his own son. This is defended by the mention of a pitch basket in both stories – pitch was not available in Egypt at the time of Moses, but was in Sumeria. Also similar to Osiris’ birth.]

Similarity does not negate the legitimacy of the REAL story.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #24
  • From:New_zealand

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:15-05-2018 07:19:57Copy HTML

Dream on!   You are claiming that all those coincidences are just that, coincidences?   Ha, fucking ha.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #25
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:16-05-2018 08:30:05Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

Dream on!   You are claiming that all those coincidences are just that, coincidences?   Ha, fucking ha.

SO what you are saying is that ANYTHING YOU don't understand or accept is simply hogwash on the basis that YOU can't make sense of it. THAT means that you basically don't accept reality.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #26
  • From:New_zealand

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:17-05-2018 06:52:20Copy HTML

You refuse to answer.
Again - or should that be still..

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #27
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:17-05-2018 10:16:26Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

You refuse to answer.
Again - or should that be still..


I've answered, except not the way you want it to come out or worded dumbo.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #28
  • From:New_zealand

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:03-10-2018 07:52:14Copy HTML

In a pig's arse you answered.

Do you have any thoughts on the similarity of the story of the birth and infancy of Sargon of Akkad to the story of Moses?  How both were hidden by their mothers.  

And the bits of the story of Moses that would have applied had it occurred in Babylonia but doesn't do so in Egypt, what do you think caused this to be recorded the way it was?  

Or the coincidence that both Sargon and Moses were found by third parties and raised by different people? 

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #29
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:04-10-2018 12:47:30Copy HTML

In a pig's arse you answered.

Do you have any thoughts on the similarity of the story of the birth and infancy of Sargon of Akkad to the story of Moses?  How both were hidden by their mothers.  

And the bits of the story of Moses that would have applied had it occurred in Babylonia but doesn't do so in Egypt, what do you think caused this to be recorded the way it was?  

Or the coincidence that both Sargon and Moses were found by third parties and raised by different people? 


I've answered you before, but ONCE again, similarity and coincidence does not discount the validity of one story over the other.

skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #30
  • From:USA

Re:The story of the Exodus from Egypt is Exceedingly Ridiculous

Date Posted:04-10-2018 02:46:06Copy HTML

Isnt it amazing God copied older stories told by man when he wrote the bible?. What a wacky coincidence. What is more amazing is that people mad up stories that turned out to be what God was going to do all along. Yes, similarity of past stories certainly brings into question your story Wale. Horus came before Jesus, born of a virgin mother, son of god, wise men came to see him blah blah blah. All fables. The story of Jesus was copied like Melania copied Michelle Obama's speech.
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
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