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Tomlapaz
  • From:USA

Date Posted:17-02-2018 10:26:29Copy HTML

"they" being evolutionists.


The article actually has to be read in its entirety to understand that.  But additionally it is worth reading if one wants a better understanding of why supposed discoveries by evolutionists do not make the impact as expected.


https://answersingenesis.org/geology/rock-layers/digging-in-wrong-place/?utm_source=articlesmedia&utm_medium=email&utm_content=2-banner-cta&utm_campaign=20171230&mc_cid=3d3aec65b9&mc_eid=cab2b47150

Each year there are many headlines, books, technical articles, and videos about another supposed missing link—a supposed link between a land mammal and whale, a dinosaur and bird, an ape and human, and so forth. Usually, these are quite easy to refute by anatomical features.

For example, alleged missing links turn out to be anything but—for example, either ape, human, or a fake (e.g., Piltdown man) or dinosaur, bird, or a fake (e.g., Archaeoraptor).

Nevertheless, these alleged missing links rarely make creationists cringe. I think it frustrates some of the evolutionists because they think they have found some sort of knock-out evidence that they interpret as support for evolution. But creationists rarely bat an eye.

Well, I’m going to let you in on a secret as to why creationists rarely take notice of these alleged missing links. It is because the evolutionists are digging in the wrong place—just like the bad guys in Indiana Jones. When you don’t have the correct information, you can miss the mark significantly.


Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:18-02-2018 03:22:55Copy HTML

Same Shit, Different Thread, and there will be the same weaving, dodging, obfuscating and outright lying from Tom who never has given a simple, direct answer to any question posed to him on this or any other matter.

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:18-02-2018 08:58:51Copy HTML

Says the guy who apparently did not read the article - and certainly has not refuted anything in it.
Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
  • From:Unknown

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:22-02-2018 04:15:57Copy HTML

 All disproven bullshit.  I posted over 100 examples in the other thread of proven observable tangible examples and so what does he do, run away and start the same thread elsewhere. 

Evolution is a fact Tomas.

Pick any of the below and lets have a detailed discussion. This is all from your other two threads on the same topic and you have run away and never responded to any of it. Darn, now you will need to start a 4th thread after you run away from this for the 10th time.

Transitional Fossils Are Not Rare

https://ncse.com/creationism/analysis/transitional-fossils-are-not-rare

The Fossil Fallacy

Creationists' demand for fossils that represent "missing links" reveals a deep misunderstanding of science

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-fossil-fallacy/

Fossils Reveal Truth About Darwin's Theory

https://www.livescience.com/3306-fossils-reveal-truth-darwin-theory.html

Here are facts that have proven evolution to be true. You can ignore them all and later claim that I never presented them as you normally do.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/evolution-watching-speciation-occur-observations/

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

http://www.darwinwasright.org/observations_speciation.html

https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/100201_speciation

https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_45


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  • From:Unknown

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:22-02-2018 04:16:32Copy HTML

 Here are more you ignore and don't care to discuss.

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Baum, D. 1992. Phylogenetic species concepts. Trends in Ecology and Evolution. 7:1-3.

Boraas, M. E. 1983. Predator induced evolution in chemostat culture. EOS. Transactions of the American Geophysical Union. 64:1102.

Breeuwer, J. A. J. and J. H. Werren. 1990. Microorganisms associated with chromosome destruction and reproductive isolation between two insect species. Nature. 346:558-560.

Budd, A. F. and B. D. Mishler. 1990. Species and evolution in clonal organisms -- a summary and discussion. Systematic Botany 15:166-171.

Bullini, L. and G. Nascetti. 1990. Speciation by hybridization in phasmids and other insects. Canadian Journal of Zoology. 68:1747-1760.

Butters, F. K. 1941. Hybrid Woodsias in Minnesota. Amer. Fern. J. 31:15-21.

Butters, F. K. and R. M. Tryon, jr. 1948. A fertile mutant of a Woodsia hybrid. American Journal of Botany. 35:138.

Brock, T. D. and M. T. Madigan. 1988. Biology of Microorganisms (5th edition). Prentice Hall, Englewood, NJ.

Callaghan, C. A. 1987. Instances of observed speciation. The American Biology Teacher. 49:3436.

Castenholz, R. W. 1992. Species usage, concept, and evolution in the cyanobacteria (blue-green algae). Journal of Phycology 28:737-745.

Clausen, J., D. D. Keck and W. M. Hiesey. 1945. Experimental studies on the nature of species. II. Plant evolution through amphiploidy and autoploidy, with examples from the Madiinae. Carnegie Institute Washington Publication, 564:1-174.

Cracraft, J. 1989. Speciation and its ontology: the empirical consequences of alternative species concepts for understanding patterns and processes of differentiation. In Otte, E. and J. A. Endler [eds.] Speciation and its consequences. Sinauer Associates, Sunderland, MA. pp. 28-59.

Craig, T. P., J. K. Itami, W. G. Abrahamson and J. D. Horner. 1993. Behavioral evidence for host-race fromation in Eurosta solidaginis. Evolution. 47:1696-1710.

Cronquist, A. 1978. Once again, what is a species? Biosystematics in agriculture. Beltsville Symposia in Agricultural Research 2:3-20.

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Crossley, S. A. 1974. Changes in mating behavior produced by selection for ethological isolation between ebony and vestigial mutants of Drosophilia melanogaster. Evolution. 28:631-647.

de Oliveira, A. K. and A. R. Cordeiro. 1980. Adaptation of Drosophila willistoni experimental populations to extreme pH medium. II. Development of incipient reproductive isolation. Heredity. 44:123-130.

de Queiroz, K. and M. Donoghue. 1988. Phylogenetic systematics and the species problem. Cladistics. 4:317-338.

de Queiroz, K. and M. Donoghue. 1990. Phylogenetic systematics and species revisited. Cladistics. 6:83-90.

de Vries, H. 1905. Species and varieties, their origin by mutation.

de Wet, J. M. J. 1971. Polyploidy and evolution in plants. Taxon. 20:29-35.

del Solar, E. 1966. Sexual isolation caused by selection for positive and negative phototaxis and geotaxis in Drosophila pseudoobscura. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (US). 56:484-487.

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Dobzhansky, T. and O. Pavlovsky. 1971. Experimentally created incipient species of Drosophila. Nature. 230:289-292.

Dobzhansky, T. 1972. Species of Drosophila: new excitement in an old field. Science. 177:664-669.

Dodd, D. M. B. 1989. Reproductive isolation as a consequence of adaptive divergence in Drosophila melanogaster. Evolution 43:1308-1311.

Dodd, D. M. B. and J. R. Powell. 1985. Founder-flush speciation: an update of experimental results with Drosophila. Evolution 39:1388-1392.

Donoghue, M. J. 1985. A critique of the biological species concept and recommendations for a phylogenetic alternative. Bryologist 88:172-181.

Du Rietz, G. E. 1930. The fundamental units of biological taxonomy. Svensk. Bot. Tidskr. 24:333-428.

Ehrman, E. 1971. Natural selection for the origin of reproductive isolation. The American Naturalist. 105:479-483.

Ehrman, E. 1973. More on natural selection for the origin of reproductive isolation. The American Naturalist. 107:318-319.

Feder, J. L., C. A. Chilcote and G. L. Bush. 1988. Genetic differentiation between sympatric host races of the apple maggot fly, Rhagoletis pomonella. Nature. 336:61-64.

Feder, J. L. and G. L. Bush. 1989. A field test of differential host-plant usage between two sibling species of Rhagoletis pomonella fruit flies (Diptera:Tephritidae) and its consequences for sympatric models of speciation. Evolution 43:1813-1819.

Frandsen, K. J. 1943. The experimental formation of Brassica juncea Czern. et Coss. Dansk. Bot. Arkiv., No. 4, 11:1-17.

Frandsen, K. J. 1947. The experimental formation of Brassica napus L. var. oleifera DC and Brassica carinata Braun. Dansk. Bot. Arkiv., No. 7, 12:1-16.

Galiana, A., A. Moya and F. J. Alaya. 1993. Founder-flush speciation in Drosophila pseudoobscura: a large scale experiment. Evolution. 47432-444.

Gottleib, L. D. 1973. Genetic differentiation, sympatric speciation, and the origin of a diploid species of Stephanomeira. American Journal of Botany. 60: 545-553.

Halliburton, R. and G. A. E. Gall. 1981. Disruptive selection and assortative mating in Tribolium castaneum. Evolution. 35:829-843.

Hurd, L. E., and R. M. Eisenberg. 1975. Divergent selection for geotactic response and evolution of reproductive isolation in sympatric and allopatric populations of houseflies. The American Naturalist. 109:353-358.

Karpchenko, G. D. 1927. Polyploid hybrids of Raphanus sativus L. X Brassica oleraceae L. Bull. Appl. Botany. 17:305-408.

Karpchenko, G. D. 1928. Polyploid hybrids of Raphanus sativus L. X Brassica oleraceae L. Z. Indukt. Abstami-a Verenbungsi. 48:1-85.

Kilias, G., S. N. Alahiotis and M. Delecanos. 1980. A multifactorial investigation of speciation theory using Drosophila melanogaster. Evolution. 34:730-737.

Knight, G. R., A. Robertson and C. H. Waddington. 1956. Selection for sexual isolation within a species. Evolution. 10:14-22.

Koopman, K. F. 1950. Natural selection for reproductive isolation between Drosophila pseudoobscura and Drosophila persimilis. Evolution. 4:135-148.

Lee, R. E. 1989. Phycology (2nd edition) Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, UK

Levin, D. A. 1979. The nature of plant species. Science 204:381-384.

Lokki, J. and A. Saura. 1980. Polyploidy in insect evolution. In: W. H. Lewis (ed.) Polyploidy: Biological Relevance. Plenum Press, New York.

Macnair, M. R. 1981. Tolerance of higher plants to toxic materials. In: J. A. Bishop and L. M. Cook (eds.). Genetic consequences of man made change. Pp.177-297. Academic Press, New York.

Macnair, M. R. and P. Christie. 1983. Reproductive isolation as a pleiotropic effect of copper tolerance in Mimulus guttatus. Heredity. 50:295-302.

Manhart, J. R. and R. M. McCourt. 1992. Molecular data and species concepts in the algae. Journal of Phycology. 28:730-737.

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Mayr, E. 1982. The growth of biological thought: diversity, evolution and inheritance. Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA. McCourt, R. M. and R. W. Hoshaw. 1990. Noncorrespondence of breeding groups, morphology and monophyletic groups in Spirogyra (Zygnemataceae; Chlorophyta) and the application of species concepts. Systematic Botany. 15:69-78.

McPheron, B. A., D. C. Smith and S. H. Berlocher. 1988. Genetic differentiation between host races of Rhagoletis pomonella. Nature. 336:64-66.

Meffert, L. M. and E. H. Bryant. 1991. Mating propensity and courtship behavior in serially bottlenecked lines of the housefly. Evolution 45:293-306.

Mishler, B. D. 1985. The morphological, developmental and phylogenetic basis of species concepts in the bryophytes. Bryologist. 88:207-214.

Mishler, B. D. and M. J. Donoghue. 1982. Species concepts: a case for pluralism. Systematic Zoology. 31:491-503.

Muntzing, A. 1932. Cytogenetic investigations on the synthetic Galeopsis tetrahit. Hereditas. 16:105-154.

Nelson, G. 1989. Cladistics and evolutionary models. Cladistics. 5:275-289.

Newton, W. C. F. and C. Pellew. 1929. Primula kewensis and its derivatives. J. Genetics. 20:405-467.

Otte, E. and J. A. Endler (eds.). 1989. Speciation and its consequences. Sinauer Associates. Sunderland, MA.

Owenby, M. 1950. Natural hybridization and amphiploidy in the genus Tragopogon. Am. J. Bot. 37:487-499.

Pasterniani, E. 1969. Selection for reproductive isolation between two populations of maize, Zea mays L. Evolution. 23:534-547.

Powell, J. R. 1978. The founder-flush speciation theory: an experimental approach. Evolution. 32:465-474.

Prokopy, R. J., S. R. Diehl, and S. H. Cooley. 1988. Oecologia. 76:138.

Rabe, E. W. and C. H. Haufler. 1992. Incipient polyploid speciation in the maidenhair fern (Adiantum pedatum, adiantaceae)? American Journal of Botany. 79:701-707.

Rice, W. R. 1985. Disruptive selection on habitat preference and the evolution of reproductive isolation: an exploratory experiment. Evolution. 39:645-646.

Rice, W. R. and E. E. Hostert. 1993. Laboratory experiments on speciation: What have we learned in forty years? Evolution. 47:1637-1653.

Rice, W. R. and G. W. Salt. 1988. Speciation via disruptive selection on habitat preference: experimental evidence. The American Naturalist. 131:911-917.

Rice, W. R. and G. W. Salt. 1990. The evolution of reproductive isolation as a correlated character under sympatric conditions: experimental evidence. Evolution. 44:1140-1152.

Ringo, J., D. Wood, R. Rockwell, and H. Dowse. 1989. An experiment testing two hypotheses of speciation. The American Naturalist. 126:642-661.

Schluter, D. and L. M. Nagel. 1995. Parallel speciation by natural selection. American Naturalist. 146:292-301.

Shikano, S., L. S. Luckinbill and Y. Kurihara. 1990. Changes of traits in a bacterial population associated with protozoal predation. Microbial Ecology. 20:75-84.

Smith, D. C. 1988. Heritable divergence of Rhagoletis pomonella host races by seasonal asynchrony. Nature. 336:66-67.

Soans, A. B., D. Pimentel and J. S. Soans. 1974. Evolution of reproductive isolation in allopatric and sympatric populations. The American Naturalist. 108:117-124.

Sokal, R. R. and T. J. Crovello. 1970. The biological species concept: a critical evaluation. The American Naturalist. 104:127-153.

Soltis, D. E. and P. S. Soltis. 1989. Allopolyploid speciation in Tragopogon: Insights from chloroplast DNA. American Journal of Botany. 76:1119-1124.

Stuessy, T. F. 1990. Plant taxonomy. Columbia University Press, New York.

Thoday, J. M. and J. B. Gibson. 1962. Isolation by disruptive selection. Nature. 193:1164-1166.

Thoday, J. M. and J. B. Gibson. 1970. The probability of isolation by disruptive selection. The American Naturalist. 104:219-230.

Thompson, J. N. 1987. Symbiont-induced speciation. Biological Journal of the Linnean Society. 32:385-393.

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Waring, G. L., W. G. Abrahamson and D. J. Howard. 1990. Genetic differentiation in the gall former Eurosta solidaginis (Diptera:Tephritidae) along host plant lines. Evolution. 44:1648-1655.

Weinberg, J. R., V. R. Starczak and P. Jora. 1992. Evidence for rapid speciation following a founder event in the laboratory. Evolution. 46:1214-1220.

Wood, A. M. and T. Leatham. 1992. The species concept in phytoplankton ecology. Journal of Phycology. 28:723-729.

Yen, J. H. and A. R. Barr. 1971. New hypotheses of the cause of cytoplasmic incompatability in Culex pipiens L.

Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
  • From:Unknown

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:22-02-2018 04:18:37Copy HTML

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:23-02-2018 08:27:17Copy HTML

As has been noted, you are very good at posting links.

Understanding them being a dogmatic embrace - not so sure.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
  • From:Unknown

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:23-02-2018 02:03:53Copy HTML

 You would have to read a study or engage in a discussion with me about the studies I post to be able to begin to make such a statement.  But, alas, you are lying....again.  You know I understand the science quite well.

In any event there isn't much to understand when it comes to direct observation of evolutionary change.  It is black and white.  Try reading one of the scientific studies I posted with direct observation of evolutionary change and Ill talk about it.  There is a first time for everything.

...or you could keep ignoring every scientific study I post, not read them, lie and say I don't understand them in the absence of any understanding on your part, and then run away and start a new thread with the same disproven creationist tripe.

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:23-02-2018 03:03:18Copy HTML

I suppose someone who cannot handle the dictionary is not going to follow up on a bit harder questions, but continue to hide behind pasting links that he does not understand.
Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:23-02-2018 04:25:51Copy HTML

PFFFT!

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
  • From:New_zealand

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:23-02-2018 09:25:57Copy HTML

I suppose someone who cannot handle the dictionary is not going to follow up on a bit harder questions, but continue to hide behind pasting links that he does not understand.

Skwanderer understands; it is you who doesn't have a clue.

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:24-02-2018 12:00:05Copy HTML

Reply to Bogus0Pomp

PFFFT!


In the original thread, that does pretty much describe folks' reactions to Skw's claims on that.   No wonder he abandoned that thread and never responded to the questions put forth to him there.

Really can't blame in a sense.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:24-02-2018 12:48:47Copy HTML

You are lying, Tom.  Stop it.

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:24-02-2018 03:45:38Copy HTML

With such charges should be an example - you never provide one.  As noted, the usual MO for folk that just throw charges out like that is that they are making up such charges.

Feel free to go into the original thread and see if what I say is true or not.   Otherwise, you are just doing yourself a disservice. 

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #14
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:24-02-2018 05:45:17Copy HTML

Which "original thread" Tom.  You use that phrase a lot without any specificity.  Provide a link.

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #15
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:24-02-2018 09:33:17Copy HTML

Interesting - so you are admitting you made a judgment without  the facts.

Well, regardless, happy to provide the link ONCE AGAIN.

http://forum2.aimoo.com/FSA/Political-Discussion/Hillary-failed-to-win-a-majority-of-the-popular-vote-1-1334385.html

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
  • From:Unknown

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:27-02-2018 08:13:32Copy HTML

 How about that...Ive been in Mexico a few weeks so imagine my shock to find Tomas still has not been able to rebut a single technical example of direct observation of evolution that I posted.

Here is how it goes:

1.  Tomas starts a thread about some creationist nonsense.

2. Skwanderer provides the scientific data that demonstrate unequivocally that Tomas is wrong.

3.  Tomas is unable to rebut any of the scientific data, so he complains about some distant gripe he has with skwanderer on an unrelated topic.

4.  Skwanderer presses Tomas on the scientific issues.

5. Tomas runs away for a few weeks with no response to any scientific data.

6.  Tomas starts again at the top after sufficient time has passed.  See #1.



Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #17
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:28-02-2018 02:31:26Copy HTML

Actually, the last link I posted in this thread is an excellent example of you running from a topic.

Even Bogus, who asked for the link, has not followed up on it.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #18
  • From:Unknown

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:01-03-2018 07:31:44Copy HTML

 I have never run from any topic.  Your "example" is not one at all.  I have argued that stupid point of yours in a dozen thread...s and the final conclusion.....according to Oxford English dictionary......majority means the greatest number in addition to its plurality meaning.  Get over it.  Oxford agreed with me. You lose.  Again.

Imagine my shock that Tomas posts all these threads on evolution and then is unable to respond, rebut, debate, or even acknowledge any of the science I post that demonstrates that evolution is a fact.

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #19
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:02-03-2018 06:08:02Copy HTML

You ran from that thread.  One can see that from the link.

You know better than to try your case in that thread, given how it went - I do have to give you credit for that.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #20
  • From:New_zealand

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:02-03-2018 07:39:14Copy HTML

But you are still avoiding explaining how the contradictions in your holy book can be resolved.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
katie5445 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #21
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:02-03-2018 09:22:42Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Interesting - so you are admitting you made a judgment without  the facts.

Well, regardless, happy to provide the link ONCE AGAIN.

http://forum2.aimoo.com/FSA/Political-Discussion/Hillary-failed-to-win-a-majority-of-the-popular-vote-1-1334385.html


Is there a link to God on the net? I'm going to let you know that you can believe in evolution and God, millions do it, although it means letting go of the Garden of Eden or Noah's ark and  nothing is older than a few thousand years or other nonsense passed down by man. It is not difficult to accept the Sermon on the Mount/Plains or the Beautitudes as it is also acceptable for those who follow the 12 steps, which should be a pattern for all, turn it over to a higher power what ever/whoever that may be, control what you can and when you can't let it go, make amends to your fellow man for wrong doing. Whatever gives you peace in life or makes you a decent person towards others no matter what you believe, weird to others or not, stick with it, it doesn't matter what others say as long as you are doing the right thing morally and have an acceptance of humanity who may not be just like you.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #22
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:02-03-2018 03:02:28Copy HTML

Yes, Katie, millions do believe in God and also in man evolving from animals.    Jesus, his disciples, writers in the OT, just happen to not be included on that list.

Now many folk, like yourself, do not accept all the teachings of Jesus.  That is your choice.   But if you accept all, then yeah, the evolution thing goes out the window.

Of course, other folk reject evolution for reasons apart from the Bible, including, they claim, scientific ones.



Anyway, the link in your reply has nothing to do with all of that.   It is just an example where, on an entirely different topic, Skw was the only one that voiced an objection to the use of a word, and in that thread, he fails to make his case.   His failure to admit that is what is relevant here.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #23
  • From:New_zealand

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:02-03-2018 11:27:02Copy HTML

I posted a piece that showed where Jesus is in conflict with the Old Testament.  You have not commented.

6 Times Jesus Contradicted the Old Testament
Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/keithgiles/2018/02/6_times_jesus_contradicted_ot/#9jRfQ0ugpDMba1dM.99


1) According to Deuteronomy, God commands His people to swear in His name:
Old Testament: “You shall fear the Lord your God and serve Him, and shall take oaths in His name.” – Deuteronomy 6:13

But Jesus says that to swear by anything is “from the evil one”:

 
Jesus: “But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.” – Matthew 5:37

2) The Old Testament says that God’s people should show no mercy and practice an eye for eye form of justice:

Old Testament: “Show no pity: life shall be for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.” – Deuteronomy 19:21

But Jesus contradicts this directly:

Jesus: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.” – Matthew 5:38–39

“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven.” – Matthew 5:43-48
3) The Old Testament teaches that adulterers should be put to death without exception:

Old Testament: ‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.” – Leviticus 20:10

Jesus famously ignored this command when they brought the woman caught in adultery to him:
Jesus: “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground….”Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.'” – John 8:3-11

4) The Old Testament commands that no one do any work on the Sabbath:

Old Testament: “But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do.” – Deuteronomy 5:14

Truth be told, no one breaks the Sabbath more than Jesus does. There are dozens of examples but here’s just one:

Jesus: “Then Jesus said to him, “Get up! Pick up your mat and walk.” At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked. The day on which this took place was a Sabbath” – John 5:8–9

 
5) Right after healing this man on the Sabbath, Jesus goes one step further and He commands this man to break the Sabbath, too!
In Jeremiah 17:21–22 it says that no one should carry any burden on the Sabbath:
The Old Testament: “This is what the Lord says: Be careful not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it through the gates of Jerusalem. Do not bring a load out of your houses or do any work on the Sabbath, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your ancestors.” – Jeremiah 17:21-22
Truthfully, the Jewish leaders of Jesus’ day understood that this was in direct defiance of the specific OT command:

“…and so the Jewish leaders said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat.” – John 5:10

 
6) Not only this but when Jesus famously declares that “God sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous” (Matt. 5:45) this is in direct contradiction to what Moses said in Deuteronomy 28 where he claims:

If you obey the Lord your God and faithfully keep all His commands…then He will send rain in season from his rich storehouse in the sky and bless all your work…But if you disobey the Lord your God and do not faithfully keep all his commands and laws that I am giving you today…No rain will fall, and your ground will become as hard as iron. Instead of rain, the Lord will send down dust storms and sandstorms until you are destroyed.” (Deut. 28:1-24)

So, does Jesus ever contradict the Old Testament Scripture? Yes! He most certainly does.
What does this mean? It means that:
*Jesus is the “Word of God” made flesh
*Jesus as the Living Word of God has the authority to correct the written Word as-needed
*The Old Testament Scriptures are modified by Christ because He is the reality they were always pointing to
*Jesus – His life, His teaching, His example – are the standard which everyone, and everything [including the Bible] must measure up to and align with [not the other way around]
This also means that the Old Testament Scriptures, which were written by men, were sometimes “inspired” and sometimes not so much.
How do we know the difference?
Simple: Whenever those Old Testament Scriptures accurately point us to Christ [as in prophecies about Jesus and His incarnation, ministry, identity, etc.] we know that those are truly inspired.
But, whenever we see verses that conflict with Jesus, or His teachings, or His character, or that don’t align with His revelation of the Father, etc., we can safely say that  Jesus was right and those men who write the Old Testament were wrong [at least in those cases].
Does this mean we can just make the Bible say anything we want?
No. Sorry. That’s not what it means. [Unless what you want the Bible to say is exactly in line with Jesus and His teachings and life, then, yes].
Please note: This is not an arbitrary realignment of truth in the Scriptures. It’s a Christ-centric alignment of truth, which sees Jesus as the standard.
Why? 
Because Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Because Jesus is the exact representation of the Father.
Because no one has ever seen God at any time except for Jesus. [Which means that those other people who wrote the Old Testament did not see God clearly, and certainly not as clearly as Jesus does because He is God in the flesh].
For example: In the Old Testament Scriptures, it was said that God commanded His people to kill innocent women and children and even warned them not to hold back or to show any compassion on the infants or the toddlers.
“[God Almighty says] Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'” – 1 Sam. 15:2-3
“But in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes, but you shall devote them to complete destruction…” – Deut. 20:16-18
Can you imagine Jesus turning to you and commanding you to go next door and kill every man, woman, child, and even the pets of your neighbors? Does that sound like something Jesus would say? Does that sound like something that the “Abba” revealed by Jesus would command His children to do?
Of course not. Therefore, we can conclude that verses like these are projections of God’s character made by men who sometimes heard from God prophetically and at other times [like these] did not.
How can we know this? Because we know that the God revealed to us by Jesus would not command this sort of violence against women or children, nor would He condemn someone for showing mercy and compassion on the weak and the helpless.
Jesus has shown us the Father. He is like the Father and the Father is like Jesus.
The Father that Jesus reveals to us does not command us to kill our enemies or their infants. Instead, He commands us to love our enemies, to bless them, to do good to them, and to pray for them.
He even tells us that when we do those things, we are also doing exactly what the Father does!
We have not yet fully embraced the idea that Jesus was the only one who has ever seen God.
We have not yet fully accepted the idea that Jesus reveals the Father to us better than anyone else does.
We have not yet completely believed Jesus when He tells us that God loves and even blesses His enemies and that’s why we should do it, too.
But, I have very high hopes that we might get it soon. That is my prayer.
Note: This article was inspired from a guest post by Chuck McKnight “Jesus and Torah”
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #24
  • From:Unknown

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:02-03-2018 11:28:59Copy HTML

 You ran from that thread.  One can see that from the link.

___


LOL  I'm pretty sure I have responded to you Tomas....I never ran from any debate....like you continue to run from this one.  That I didn't answer you in all 16 threads where you contonue to bring it up in some sort of sick obsession is not relevant.  You have been answered in the debate, many times.

Oxford says Majority means the greater number as well, and that is how it was used by me.  You continue to lose every time you bring it up.


And as usual, imagine my shock that Tomas has not responded to a single scientific point or study that I posted that demonstrates the fact of evolution.

katie5445 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #25
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:04-03-2018 05:27:04Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Yes, Katie, millions do believe in God and also in man evolving from animals.    Jesus, his disciples, writers in the OT, just happen to not be included on that list.

Now many folk, like yourself, do not accept all the teachings of Jesus.  That is your choice.   But if you accept all, then yeah, the evolution thing goes out the window.

Of course, other folk reject evolution for reasons apart from the Bible, including, they claim, scientific ones.



Anyway, the link in your reply has nothing to do with all of that.   It is just an example where, on an entirely different topic, Skw was the only one that voiced an objection to the use of a word, and in that thread, he fails to make his case.   His failure to admit that is what is relevant here.


I have read the Bible took around 1,500 years to write by several hundred authors, have you ever sat in a circle with half dozen persons started a story and see what the difference is by the 6th person? Believing in God or a higher power does not mean evolution has to go out the window. The only thing relevant to me is when there is interference between church and state or someone is in my face, otherwise I don't care what you believe.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #26
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:04-03-2018 06:50:25Copy HTML

Reply to katie5445

Reply to Tomlapaz

Yes, Katie, millions do believe in God and also in man evolving from animals.    Jesus, his disciples, writers in the OT, just happen to not be included on that list.

Now many folk, like yourself, do not accept all the teachings of Jesus.  That is your choice.   But if you accept all, then yeah, the evolution thing goes out the window.

Of course, other folk reject evolution for reasons apart from the Bible, including, they claim, scientific ones.



Anyway, the link in your reply has nothing to do with all of that.   It is just an example where, on an entirely different topic, Skw was the only one that voiced an objection to the use of a word, and in that thread, he fails to make his case.   His failure to admit that is what is relevant here.


I have read the Bible took around 1,500 years to write by several hundred authors, have you ever sat in a circle with half dozen persons started a story and see what the difference is by the 6th person? Believing in God or a higher power does not mean evolution has to go out the window. The only thing relevant to me is when there is interference between church and state or someone is in my face, otherwise I don't care what you believe.


Does not sound like you read my reply - we are not simply talking about 'believing in God'.

If I take Jesus at his Word, that he is God in the flesh, and given He did not believe in evolution of man from animals, why would I?  

If you wish to disagree with him and his disciples, as I noted, that is your choice.  In this life anyway.

BTW - the fact that it did take the Bible all those years to be compiled - and yet actually, it does flow pretty well, as if there was one Author behind it.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #27
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:04-03-2018 06:56:49Copy HTML

Skw: Oxford says Majority means the greater number as well, and that is how it was used by me.  You continue to lose every time you bring it up.

If the dispute was simply over the American vs. the British use of the word - you could have brought that up in the original thread, and not find folk disagreeing with you as they did.   You did not.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #28
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:04-03-2018 07:00:05Copy HTML

Yobbo: I posted a piece that showed where Jesus is in conflict with the Old Testament.  You have not commented.


Still waiting for you to deal with the claim of yours that was refuted, and you have not yet try to defend, or acknowledge it was wrong.  Just played games.

Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
katie5445 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #29
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:04-03-2018 07:24:00Copy HTML

Reply to Tomlapaz

Reply to katie5445

Reply to Tomlapaz

Yes, Katie, millions do believe in God and also in man evolving from animals.    Jesus, his disciples, writers in the OT, just happen to not be included on that list.

Now many folk, like yourself, do not accept all the teachings of Jesus.  That is your choice.   But if you accept all, then yeah, the evolution thing goes out the window.

Of course, other folk reject evolution for reasons apart from the Bible, including, they claim, scientific ones.



Anyway, the link in your reply has nothing to do with all of that.   It is just an example where, on an entirely different topic, Skw was the only one that voiced an objection to the use of a word, and in that thread, he fails to make his case.   His failure to admit that is what is relevant here.


I have read the Bible took around 1,500 years to write by several hundred authors, have you ever sat in a circle with half dozen persons started a story and see what the difference is by the 6th person? Believing in God or a higher power does not mean evolution has to go out the window. The only thing relevant to me is when there is interference between church and state or someone is in my face, otherwise I don't care what you believe.


Does not sound like you read my reply - we are not simply talking about 'believing in God'.

If I take Jesus at his Word, that he is God in the flesh, and given He did not believe in evolution of man from animals, why would I?  

If you wish to disagree with him and his disciples, as I noted, that is your choice.  In this life anyway.

BTW - the fact that it did take the Bible all those years to be compiled - and yet actually, it does flow pretty well, as if there was one Author behind it.

No, it actually doesn't it is very contradictory and what is the difference that I pick and choose? What I have taken is hope, charity and faith, how to treat your fellow man and certain morals, that I don't believe in the Garden of Eden, Noah's Ark and other stories presented over 1,500 hundred years is not damning me to some limbo or hell. 

Tomlapaz Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #30
  • From:USA

Re:They Are Digging in the Wrong Place

Date Posted:04-03-2018 08:21:04Copy HTML

Just pointing out that you disagree with Jesus, the Son of God, on several points.  If you think that makes no difference, well, again, that is your choice.
Come worship Jesus, born King of the Jews.
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