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Yobbo
  • From:New_zealand

Date Posted:24-11-2016 06:54:53Copy HTML

As I understand it, traditional Christian belief is the the universe was created somewhere between 4050-4004 BCE.  Let's say 6050 years ago.

The ancient Egyptians built all manner of things on earth before the earth and they were created.


Ancient Egyptian city and graveyard dating back more than 7000 years uncovered by archaeologists.


Inner Hypostyle Hall Of The Temple Of Seti I, Abydos. Photo / The discovery of the ancient Egyptian city and graveyard was made in Abydos. Photo / Getty Images
Inner Hypostyle Hall Of The Temple Of Seti I, Abydos. Photo / The discovery of the ancient Egyptian city and graveyard was made in Abydos. Photo / Getty Images

An ancient Egyptian city and graveyard dating back more than 7000 years has been uncovered by archaeologists.

The discovery was made in the ancient city of Abydos in southern Egypt, located around 400 metres from the Temple of Seti I.

Believed to date back to 5316BC, excavators working on the site claimed to have uncovered huts, pottery and stone instruments.

Archaeologists also claim to have discovered 15 large graves, with some of them notably larger than the royal graves in Abydos.


news.com.au

How can we reconcile the two time lines?
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
  • From:Unknown

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:25-11-2016 02:45:14Copy HTML

Maybe it was 8000 years.  I'm sure that answer satisfies Tomas.

Except the Heiltsuk have been in Bella Bella BC for 13,000 years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/us/old-treaties-and-new-alliances-empower-native-americans.html?_r=0

They migrated from asia long before that.

It never ceases to amaze how the mind of a creationist can wave this stuff off.

Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:26-11-2016 08:09:05Copy HTML

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:25-12-2016 12:50:38Copy HTML

Another thread lacking any input from our fundamentalist.
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
  • From:Unknown

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:29-12-2016 03:42:48Copy HTML

 You would just "play games" and be "dishonest" if Tomas tried to explain it to you.  His reasons for not needing to respond.
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:05-04-2018 10:47:15Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

As I understand it, traditional Christian belief is the the universe was created somewhere between 4050-4004 BCE.  Let's say 6050 years ago.

The ancient Egyptians built all manner of things on earth before the earth and they were created.


Ancient Egyptian city and graveyard dating back more than 7000 years uncovered by archaeologists.


Inner Hypostyle Hall Of The Temple Of Seti I, Abydos. Photo / The discovery of the ancient Egyptian city and graveyard was made in Abydos. Photo / Getty Images
Inner Hypostyle Hall Of The Temple Of Seti I, Abydos. Photo / The discovery of the ancient Egyptian city and graveyard was made in Abydos. Photo / Getty Images

An ancient Egyptian city and graveyard dating back more than 7000 years has been uncovered by archaeologists.

The discovery was made in the ancient city of Abydos in southern Egypt, located around 400 metres from the Temple of Seti I.

Believed to date back to 5316BC, excavators working on the site claimed to have uncovered huts, pottery and stone instruments.

Archaeologists also claim to have discovered 15 large graves, with some of them notably larger than the royal graves in Abydos.


news.com.au

How can we reconcile the two time lines?

The so called understanding posted that Christians put a date of @ 4000 years is a misunderstanding on the part of critics and some in Christianity who have made human mistakes.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:06-04-2018 05:44:20Copy HTML

 How can we reconcile the two time lines?

__ We cant.  There is far more data than archaeology that says the world is much much older than the bible, by a few billion years.

Ill give you one more and am happy to provide dozens afterward.

Speed of light - How can we see light from stars where the light would take millions of years to reach us?  Did the speed of light used to be a lot faster violating the laws of physics? 

The only possible answers: 1. God did it to trick us. 2. The universe is very old (billions of years)


"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:06-04-2018 10:31:44Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 How can we reconcile the two time lines?

__ We cant.  There is far more data than archaeology that says the world is much much older than the bible, by a few billion years.

Ill give you one more and am happy to provide dozens afterward.

Speed of light - How can we see light from stars where the light would take millions of years to reach us?  Did the speed of light used to be a lot faster violating the laws of physics? 

The only possible answers: 1. God did it to trick us. 2. The universe is very old (billions of years)



The so called understanding posted that Christians put a date of @ 4000 years is a misunderstanding on the part of critics and some in Christianity who have made human mistakes.
Bogus0Pomp Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:07-04-2018 05:31:03Copy HTML

Hi Tomlapaz.  Is Wale63 your new aimoo handle?

LOL

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z "If you can read these 26 letters, there is nothing about the universe that you can't learn." -- Lambros D. Callimoahos
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:07-04-2018 05:49:29Copy HTML

Reply to Bogus0Pomp

Hi Tomlapaz.  Is Wale63 your new aimoo handle?

LOL


No, I guess he is who he is (tom) and I am a distinct and separate identity.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:07-04-2018 08:59:56Copy HTML

 You answered a question.  You cant be Tomas.  He has yet to ever answer any questions.  Likes to keep his lying options open.
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:20-04-2018 11:47:24Copy HTML

Image may contain: text
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:21-04-2018 09:02:39Copy HTML

Image may contain: text
"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:23-04-2018 02:45:39Copy HTML

 The so called understanding posted that Christians put a date of @ 4000 years is a misunderstanding on the part of critics and some in Christianity who have made human mistakes.

___ 

Then what is it Christian expert? Afraid to answer?  Because we can cite civilizations that go far back beyond that one?



"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #14
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:09-05-2018 12:33:00Copy HTML

In late March, ex-evangelical Nelle Smith wrote on Religion Dispatches about the shock she felt when she realized that the earth was old, and that the young earth creationism she had been taught in her family and her church was factually false. She wrote about how thoroughly that realization rocked her world. Drawing on her experience, she offered this advice to readers:

…know this when you talk to an evangelical: in attempting to persuade them to your point of view—even on a topic that seems minor to you—you’re not asking for them to change their mind, you’re asking them to punch a hole in the fabric of their reality, to begin the process of destroying their world. And, as anyone who has had the experience knows, world-destroying is not fun. It is, frankly, terrifying.

My own experience was very similar to Smith’s. I grew up in an evangelical home and was raised on a steady diet of young earth creationist literature. Learning that young earth creationism was not true launched a spiritual crisis. It was as though I could no longer be sure anything I had been taught was true. Young earth creationism was that important, that central to my belief system and the worldview I had grown up learning—and it was a lie. What else was a lie?

Blogger Fred Clark of the Slacktivist responded to Smith’s post, writing about the tension she described in a post on his blog:

Young-earth creationism is a cruelly efficient machine for manufacturing spiritual crisis. It has created more atheists than all of Richard Dawkins’ books put together. It exchanges the truth of God for a lie — a lie that’s spectacularly indefensible because none of the people caught up in that lie lives on a young Earth. They live, instead, on this one — this ancient Earth that confronts its inhabitants with its vast and incomprehensible oldness at every turn.

The “evangelical worldview” Nelle Smith describes binds that unsustainable lie to everything else that evangelical Christians believe: the existence of a benevolent God, the belief that life has meaning, the love of Christ, the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. All of this is bound together with the lie in a constantly repeated and reinforced if/then construction. If the Earth is older than 10,000 years, then God does not love you. If the Earth is older than 10,000 years, then all meaning is illusion. If the Earth is older than 10,000 years, then Christ is not risen and your faith is also vain and you are of all people most to be pitied.

As Clark describes, conservative evangelicals and fundamentalists frequently tie young earth creationism to every other evangelical belief. As a result, when that falls, everything else is shaken. And this tying together is not accidental.

I grew up on material from Answers in Genesis. I read their books and attended their conferences. One thing they teach is that if young earth creationism is not true, none of Christianity is. This teaching is part of an inter-sect struggle—an attempt on the part of young earth creationists to convince liberal, moderate, or mainline Christians that they cannot be Christian and hold some other view about origins than theirs.

Young earth creationists tie young earth creationism to every other Christian belief as part of a battle against liberal, moderate, and mainline Christians who might otherwise ascribe to theistic evolution. But in so doing young earth creationists manufacture a spiritual crisis for any evangelical who sees through the pseudoscience they are selling.

The irony is that Answers in Genesis published a book titled “Already Gone” alleging that  young people were leaving the church because not enough Sunday schools were teaching young earth creationism. There was a complete tone deafness to the role they themselves play in young people leaving the church by making belief in core Christian doctrines contingent on belief in young earth creationism.

When young evangelicals like Smith—and like myself—see their science for what it is, we are left with a huge problem. We grew up being told that Christian doctrine only held together on the foundation of a literal Genesis and young earth creationism. But young earth creationism was scientifically and manifestly false. Cue spiritual crisis.

Of course, not every evangelical who walks this path becomes an atheist—some become part of the evangelical left, or become Episcopalian, or, as I briefly did, Catholic. There are Christian traditions that do not tie belief in God, in salvation, and in the Bible to young earth creationism. And those who do become atheists through the spiritual crisis induced by evolution are generally aware that these options are out there—in other words, there is often a confluence of factors and processes.

All that aside, the underlying point I want to make is this—evangelicals need to think long and hard about what they are doing when they tie Christian belief and practice to young earth creationism. When they contend against theistic evolution, they are shutting the back door. They are manufacturing a Christianity that only holds together only as long as an individual believes the pseudoscience behind young earth creationism. And if and when that individual does not, all of Christianity falls apart.

Are evangelicals willing to stake everything on the science behind young earth creationism being true? That, after all, is what they have done. The answer to that question, for many evangelicals, is yes. They are true believers in young earth creationism. I certainly was, and my parents are today. They staked everything—and with me, they lost.

When evangelicals tie belief in young earth creationism to belief in the Bible, and in salvation, those latter beliefs are only as strong as the former.


Patheos

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #15
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:18-05-2018 06:02:42Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

In late March, ex-evangelical Nelle Smith wrote on Religion Dispatches about the shock she felt when she realized that the earth was old, and that the young earth creationism she had been taught in her family and her church was factually false. She wrote about how thoroughly that realization rocked her world. Drawing on her experience, she offered this advice to readers:

…know this when you talk to an evangelical: in attempting to persuade them to your point of view—even on a topic that seems minor to you—you’re not asking for them to change their mind, you’re asking them to punch a hole in the fabric of their reality, to begin the process of destroying their world. And, as anyone who has had the experience knows, world-destroying is not fun. It is, frankly, terrifying.

My own experience was very similar to Smith’s. I grew up in an evangelical home and was raised on a steady diet of young earth creationist literature. Learning that young earth creationism was not true launched a spiritual crisis. It was as though I could no longer be sure anything I had been taught was true. Young earth creationism was that important, that central to my belief system and the worldview I had grown up learning—and it was a lie. What else was a lie?

Blogger Fred Clark of the Slacktivist responded to Smith’s post, writing about the tension she described in a post on his blog:

Young-earth creationism is a cruelly efficient machine for manufacturing spiritual crisis. It has created more atheists than all of Richard Dawkins’ books put together. It exchanges the truth of God for a lie — a lie that’s spectacularly indefensible because none of the people caught up in that lie lives on a young Earth. They live, instead, on this one — this ancient Earth that confronts its inhabitants with its vast and incomprehensible oldness at every turn.

The “evangelical worldview” Nelle Smith describes binds that unsustainable lie to everything else that evangelical Christians believe: the existence of a benevolent God, the belief that life has meaning, the love of Christ, the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. All of this is bound together with the lie in a constantly repeated and reinforced if/then construction. If the Earth is older than 10,000 years, then God does not love you. If the Earth is older than 10,000 years, then all meaning is illusion. If the Earth is older than 10,000 years, then Christ is not risen and your faith is also vain and you are of all people most to be pitied.

As Clark describes, conservative evangelicals and fundamentalists frequently tie young earth creationism to every other evangelical belief. As a result, when that falls, everything else is shaken. And this tying together is not accidental.

I grew up on material from Answers in Genesis. I read their books and attended their conferences. One thing they teach is that if young earth creationism is not true, none of Christianity is. This teaching is part of an inter-sect struggle—an attempt on the part of young earth creationists to convince liberal, moderate, or mainline Christians that they cannot be Christian and hold some other view about origins than theirs.

Young earth creationists tie young earth creationism to every other Christian belief as part of a battle against liberal, moderate, and mainline Christians who might otherwise ascribe to theistic evolution. But in so doing young earth creationists manufacture a spiritual crisis for any evangelical who sees through the pseudoscience they are selling.

The irony is that Answers in Genesis published a book titled “Already Gone” alleging that  young people were leaving the church because not enough Sunday schools were teaching young earth creationism. There was a complete tone deafness to the role they themselves play in young people leaving the church by making belief in core Christian doctrines contingent on belief in young earth creationism.

When young evangelicals like Smith—and like myself—see their science for what it is, we are left with a huge problem. We grew up being told that Christian doctrine only held together on the foundation of a literal Genesis and young earth creationism. But young earth creationism was scientifically and manifestly false. Cue spiritual crisis.

Of course, not every evangelical who walks this path becomes an atheist—some become part of the evangelical left, or become Episcopalian, or, as I briefly did, Catholic. There are Christian traditions that do not tie belief in God, in salvation, and in the Bible to young earth creationism. And those who do become atheists through the spiritual crisis induced by evolution are generally aware that these options are out there—in other words, there is often a confluence of factors and processes.

All that aside, the underlying point I want to make is this—evangelicals need to think long and hard about what they are doing when they tie Christian belief and practice to young earth creationism. When they contend against theistic evolution, they are shutting the back door. They are manufacturing a Christianity that only holds together only as long as an individual believes the pseudoscience behind young earth creationism. And if and when that individual does not, all of Christianity falls apart.

Are evangelicals willing to stake everything on the science behind young earth creationism being true? That, after all, is what they have done. The answer to that question, for many evangelicals, is yes. They are true believers in young earth creationism. I certainly was, and my parents are today. They staked everything—and with me, they lost.

When evangelicals tie belief in young earth creationism to belief in the Bible, and in salvation, those latter beliefs are only as strong as the former.


Patheos


Another copy and paste job because you have no original thoughts of your own.
Yobbo Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
  • From:New_zealand

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:18-05-2018 08:38:57Copy HTML

I am reprinting the thoughts of others.  Some are well thought out and sensible while others are fatuous.
Wale and Tom disagree with the former group and are part of the latter.

"Les hommes ne font jamais le mal si complètement et joyeusement que lorsqu'ils le font par conviction religieuse." Blaise Pascal
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #17
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:19-05-2018 03:11:17Copy HTML

Reply to Yobbo

I am reprinting the thoughts of others.  Some are well thought out and sensible while others are fatuous.
Wale and Tom disagree with the former group and are part of the latter.


I guess this makes sense, ONLY in your absurd mind.
skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #18
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:19-05-2018 06:32:10Copy HTML

 Wale excuse #37 for avoiding debate: Another copy and paste job because you have no original thoughts of your own.

___


Wale and Tomas are similar in that they both have dozens of excuses for not actually having to debate any topic in detail. 

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #19
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:19-05-2018 11:11:08Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 Wale excuse #37 for avoiding debate: Another copy and paste job because you have no original thoughts of your own.

___


Wale and Tomas are similar in that they both have dozens of excuses for not actually having to debate any topic in detail. 


TRANSLATION

" I want everyone to discuss and debate on MY terms, MY constructs and MY predeterminations-skdoodle"

skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #20
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:24-05-2018 05:08:27Copy HTML

 TRANSLATION

" I want everyone to discuss and debate on MY terms, MY constructs and MY predeterminations-skdoodle"

________________________________


You would first have to enter a debate before pondering the terms of your participation.

You claimed the process of biological evolution is not a fact.  You presented no evidence to support your claim, you presented no refutation of published studies of evolution, i.e., you never entered the debate.  You merely stated something you would like to be true, then ran around in circles for 13 pages.  If that is YOUR construct of debating a topic, you are mentally ill.


"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #21
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:25-05-2018 10:48:50Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 TRANSLATION

" I want everyone to discuss and debate on MY terms, MY constructs and MY predeterminations-skdoodle"

________________________________


You would first have to enter a debate before pondering the terms of your participation.

You claimed the process of biological evolution is not a fact.  You presented no evidence to support your claim, you presented no refutation of published studies of evolution, i.e., you never entered the debate.  You merely stated something you would like to be true, then ran around in circles for 13 pages.  If that is YOUR construct of debating a topic, you are mentally ill.



TRANSLATION

" I AM A GREAT SCIENTIST, just ask me and THAT is why I continue to spend MUCH time on a message board INSTEAD of actually going out and convincing OTHER scientists who disagree with me because THEY can find the flaws in my thinking AND anyone who does NOT confine themselves to MY constructs and MY thinking is mentally ill"-skdoodle

skwanderer Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #22
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:25-05-2018 08:04:25Copy HTML

 No scientists disagree that evolution is a fact.  There is not a single published study in all of science that says evolution doesn't happen.

And thank you, I am a great scientist.  Arguing with an idiot like you takes 30 seconds each day.


"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." Albert Einstein
wale63 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #23
  • From:USA

Re:Time line for the biblical creation. Fundamentalists vs reality.

Date Posted:26-05-2018 12:18:05Copy HTML

Reply to skwanderer

 No scientists disagree that evolution is a fact.  There is not a single published study in all of science that says evolution doesn't happen.

And thank you, I am a great scientist.  Arguing with an idiot like you takes 30 seconds each day.



Well, since you are an imbecile from the outset, I guess we can take your statements in that light.
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